Alpine-Up New Trad/ Multipitch Belay Device

[caribe]

http://vimeo.com/26650084
http://www.climbingtechnology.it/en-US/ ... tails.html

The extra hole for the dynamic option seems stupid. Do you guys have a problem with the kind of catch that you get on trad with a Grigri, a Cinch or other autoblocking devices? The rope does most of the impulse reduction no matter what is stopping the fall? The give in the bodies and harnesses of the climber and belayer is going to have secondary import to reducing the impact. There should be little difference in the impact between the tube device and the autoblocking device.

I think Climbing Technology is a very innovative company though and they make a solid product.

[Wolf]

I think the dynamic option is more for multi-pitch trad in an alpine In single pitch, the force necessary to cause rope slippage through a modern belay device is lower than the force that lifts the belayer off the ground, but if the belayer is tied to an anchor and can't go up then rope slippage could be desirable. Think of how hard a catch can be if your belayer sits back instead of going up, and then think about how hard that would be if the fall factor was in the 1-2 range. This someis why some people say belay gloves are necessary equipment for multi-pitch. I'm pretty sure that somewhere in Petzl's literature it says that the grigri is not to be used as a multi-pitch belay device for the same reason.

I do like my click up, and maybe I'll get an alpine up eventually.

[Syphur]

I'm not trying to say it's a complicated device but it does seem like it would be easy to make a mistake. Load that biner in there the wrong way and it won't auto-block when you're epecting it to. I think I'll be sticking with my grigri and atc. I was tought by a couple seasoned tradies to use an atc on multi-pitch climbs. I didn't question but the anchor point seems valid.

[caribe]

The device is dropdead easy to use.

[ReachHigh]

I agree with you Wolf, the typical single pitch standing belayer with device attached to to harness already gives a fairly soft catch before any other technique is applied. Even fall factors less then one, while belayed off an anchor is ruff.

[kato]

A belay device that's dropdead easy, eh? My sarcasm detector is failing me... All of these new belay devices seem to be mainly for making money. They're trying to snag market share by being clever, but the result is added complication, additional training issues, and time-bombs of unforeseen circumstances, but no real benefit that I can see. I hope the writers of the "Saw" franchise are paying attention, they can probably squeeze out another sequel on this stuff.

[caribe]

All of these new belay devices seem to be mainly for making money. They're trying to snag market share by being clever, but the result is added complication, additional training issues, and time-bombs of unforeseen circumstances, but no real benefit that I can see.

The Click-up is a step forward. If your argument (perspective) is written in stone, there will be no real benefit to innovation. The quality of the industry will also take a hit after patents fade.

[Syphur]

Innovate steps foward are good but not always required. Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the injuries I've heard of this year were belayer related. If you make mistakes easier they will happen more. I've seen experienced climbers catch themselves loading a grigri backwards. Make an idiot-proof belay device and I'll support that but anything else is just reinventing the wheel.

[Shamis]

The gri-gri is flawed because you can't use it exactly the same way you use an atc. The click up fixes that. You have an autolocker that you can use exactly the same way as an atc. That's a huge advantage and will allow people to use the same technique on both devices, preventing a lot of accidents.

[caribe]

...The click up fixes that. ...

Gary and I argue about literally everything, but I agree with him here. I would add that the Click Up has the added advantage of lefties and righties being mirror images of one another in use, just like the ATC. The Grigri, Cinch, Sum, Eddie etc. break this symmetry due to their chiral configuration. The Click Up as the same number of moving parts as the ATC.

The Alpine Up is nearly as simple. I am just bitching about the extra 'dynamic' option. I think it is unnecessary and sacrifices simplicity.