Who does it belong to?

[dustonian]

Hey, I thought Knit's story was pretty funny.

[bcombs]

I don't see how this question has an answer. The group is too large and diverse for self-policing. If we don't want signage at Torrent with the rules, the only other thing I can think of is signage at Miguels talking about Torrent rules. The chances of every douchebag that wants to poop on the trail being caught and berated by fellow climbers is next to none. We do all get to feel the net result though, which is closure or even further access reductions. Doesn't bother me, I don't mind paying for the cabins, but it sure sucks for folks who can't / don't want to spring for the rental fee.

[dustonian]

Good idea--a big obvious sign on that kiosk at Miguel's would be a decent start...not a perfect solution, but a start anyway.

[climb2core]

Does Miguel's sell wag bags? Could be posted on kiosk sign as well... Get into Torrent, make sure to have your wag bag!

[Andrew]

Lets make Miguel fix our problems.

[Shamis]

Why not just hire a manager to run the place?

Have him charge a fee for people to climb, give them wristbands or something to wear, walk around with a shotgun, and clean up poop etc. If the place gets too crowded, jack up the prices. Money does a pretty good job at managing a limited resource.

if you don't wanna deal with the overhead of paying somebody, an alternate idea would be to just to find a group of dirtbag climbers to manage the place. If you had 3 of them, you could give them free stay in a cabin for the season, and they could alternate days policing the area. Given the limited career potential for dirtbag climbers this might be extra incentive to have something on their resume other than 'dirtbag'.

[climb2core]

Lets make Miguel fix our problems.

Andy boy... that is not what is being said. Putting something up on a kiosk is hardly putting Miguel out of his way. Also, don't think it would be a big stress on his business to put some wag bags behind the counter and sell them for a profit.

[dustonian]

Lets make Miguel fix our problems.

How is posting a sign on a kiosk bulletin board "making" Miguel do anything? I thought bulletin boards were meant for posting bulletins.

[Shamis]

Another fun thing to do which would require some collaboration with Miguels would be to take pictures of anybody you have to kick out of torrent and have Miguel hang them up on a wall of shame, and have miguels refuse them service forever. I think Roger used to have something similar up at the NRG. I think he called it "people that fucked up"

[climb2core]

Why not just hire a manager to run the place?

Have him charge a fee for people to climb, give them wristbands or something to wear, walk around with a shotgun, and clean up poop etc. If the place gets too crowded, jack up the prices. Money does a pretty good job at managing a limited resource.

if you don't wanna deal with the overhead of paying somebody, an alternate idea would be to just to find a group of dirtbag climbers to manage the place. If you had 3 of them, you could give them free stay in a cabin for the season, and they could alternate days policing the area. Given the limited career potential for dirtbag climbers this might be extra incentive to have something on their resume other than 'dirtbag'.

Haven't you heard Bob... he wants LESS involvement. Solutions need to not involve Bob or require his time.