Grid Bolting at the Red

[kafish2]

The great thing about climbing is that if you don't like a climb, you dont have to get on it.

It seems like the majority of posts think the red is over bolted or that link ups are no good. So I leave you some options here so we can get rid of the grid and start having some nice aesthetic climbs. Lets start with Golden Boy and True Love... They share multiple holds. One clearly has to be chopped so which 5 star route will it be? While we are at the gold coast what about Black Gold, Gods Own, and 24 Karats. Those are way closer than 30 ft apart. Clearly the only option there is to chop gods own. But wait, should that stay? If so then Black Gold and 24 Karats should go? Im feeling sick now. OK when we are done there I would think 2/3rds of the lines at the Darkside need to go in order to adequately space the climbs out. The undertoe needs to lose 50% of its routes from this arguement, maybe more. So which stays, chainsaw or Ale 8? Or we can agree that this is getting rediculous and maybe we should just climb what we like. If you don't like the way a crag is developed chose another or better yet bolt your own...

[the lurkist]

When Ron Kauk came here several years ago John Bronaugh and I took him up to DS. We thought
He would be psyched, but he was pretty disappointed. He thought it was a beautiful
wall but should have only had two routes on it.

[allen]

Thank you kyle. Agreed.

[agdenm2]

I think that's part of why the main Choc Factory wall is so stunning (besides its size), is the fact that there are only two lines, both on the either end.
I guess if there were more obvious lines in the middle those might have been bolted though

[RRO]

all kidding aside and not that my opinion really matters... im not as concerned about the actual climbing routes being overbolted, link ups and so on. thats all subjective and no matter what you do its going to piss someone off. personally im not a huge fan of it but have broken the "rules" many times myself, prob still will in the future. routes are a case by case basis.lets not fool ourselves, the area is basically a sport park, like it or not. we each have our own level we can accept, dont hurt others and your good. long argument thats been talked about forever and will never be solved. like kafish and others said, dont like the route then dont climb it.

not trying to beat a dead horse or be more of a whiner than i already am... but what we need to start putting on our radars beyond or equal as to what goes on at the rock is the impact we have on the base and the poor access trails. almost every area we have/use we are constantly doing maintenance on, maybe your not, but trust me someone is always out there doing something...or we are letting it go till its non-repairable and we stand back with our thumbs up our asses asking what to do and what happened and possibly closed down..

think before you sink those bolts. if you do drill then think about how the masses are going to affect the area, cause like it or not if you bolt it , word will get out and they will come.... they will also bring their friends and dogs and their dogs friends. so that small shortcut straight up you and your buddies are using to get to your new project will be a water fall in less than 5 years and everything living in its path will be washed out. dont believe me.......walk to just about any crag.

if your new to trail building or just dont want to deal with it and your working a new area in the PMRP drop me a line and i will gladly come out and help lay out the final trail and gather the man power to cut it right the first time. i wont even spray about your futuristic test piece...

u

[rhunt]

Good words Matt, I like the big picture perspective you have. As the Red goes through these HUGE growing pains, it will hurt less if more people think outside there next redpoint.

And yes Pigsteak the undertow wall and pretty much the entire Lode is a grid bolted outdoor gym especially since all the routes have prema-draws! But apparently that is a good thing so...cool!

And just remember Pigsteak, no one has any right to be critical of your route developing. The only thing anyone should be saying to you is, "thank you"! So keep doing what you are doing the F&%$ all the rest.

Oh and you should have use a different thread to bring up the discussion about stainless and glue-ins.

[SCIN]

Pipe Dream here we come. Fuck asthetics, it's all about points on 8a and good hand jobs from your bros.

[ynp1]

maple canyon sucks

[climb2core]

Most of us climb outside because we appreciate that we are not climbing in a gym. I don't want to have to wait for the climber on my left and right to finish because the routes share a third of foot or handholds. So, for my two cents, how about just putting enough distance that you can feel you are truly climbing your own line and not sharing it with the guy next to you. That distance will be dependent of the natural lines the route and adjacent routes take. They could start 6 feet apart and diverge, or 20 feet apart and come close together... just don't have them converge.

I think link ups should only be considered when they add a new route of significant difference from the two original lines and follow a relatively straight path from ground to anchors. From most of what I have seen, the link ups are on pretty hard stuff, that would involve a very small percentage of the climbing community, thus really not impacting things too much.

[tbwilsonky]

From most of what I have seen, the link ups are on pretty hard stuff, that would involve a very small percentage of the climbing community, thus really not impacting things too much.

which is exactly why we need more moderate link-ups; give everyone a taste of the high life.