If I bolt a route(spend money)and project it.It will stay closed until I say its open or sent.If you even think about poaching on of my projects without permission.I WILL FUCK YOU UP.I don't mean easy like your daddy shoulda did it.I mean FUCKED UP.You think you're a badass climber.I'm a badass,period.You'd be lucky to ever climb again after I got through with you.
So let me say this in no uncertain terms so as to save your life and me another lengthy jail sentence.CLOSED MEANS CLOSED!!!
Brilliant Orange at the Gold Goast
On one hand, allah* it was nice of you to ask about the route. On the other hand, I can't help but think of the old question "If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it fall....."
Does anyone lose anything if someone comes in, hikes a project and walks away without spraying? If the projecter doesn't know that anyone else has sent the climb, then they get the experience of 'being' the first assencionist and the official credit? I should say that in this case, it sounds like Rob deserves a lot of credit for the work that he's done, and that, in the normal sense of 'ethics', it is ethically superior to NOT snake someone's project. I am asking this in a more or less philosophical way.
I haven't put up routes yet, though I'd like to and would like to learn by helping (let me know if anyone needs help!) I just can't imagine having such a proprietary feeling about a sport route. I can see having that sort of feeling about a 1500' trad route with the weeks or months that that can take to do, but as hard as it can be to put up a 70' sport route, it just seems different to me. I know that there are people who warm up by onsighting routes harder than I redpoint - for almost everyone, there's someone out there who can hike your project. I just don't see what it takes away from me as the equipper if someone else has sent the route. I guess that, to me, establishing a route is about contributing to the community.
It still comes down to the question of wether I can do that route or not. Just because someone else has doesn't help or hurt me. I may not want to see anyone else on it or hear about beta for it (in a sort of 'onsight' way), but it just seems to make no difference to me and that bit of rock wether anyone else has climbed that bit of rock.
In the end, I think it's best to respect the wishes of the equipper - particularly if (s)he has done a ton of work and only has one project at a time.
* Given your modesty and generally subtle nature, you might consider changing your nic to "allah akbar" Maybe someone else has the patience to explain?
Does anyone lose anything if someone comes in, hikes a project and walks away without spraying? If the projecter doesn't know that anyone else has sent the climb, then they get the experience of 'being' the first assencionist and the official credit? I should say that in this case, it sounds like Rob deserves a lot of credit for the work that he's done, and that, in the normal sense of 'ethics', it is ethically superior to NOT snake someone's project. I am asking this in a more or less philosophical way.
I haven't put up routes yet, though I'd like to and would like to learn by helping (let me know if anyone needs help!) I just can't imagine having such a proprietary feeling about a sport route. I can see having that sort of feeling about a 1500' trad route with the weeks or months that that can take to do, but as hard as it can be to put up a 70' sport route, it just seems different to me. I know that there are people who warm up by onsighting routes harder than I redpoint - for almost everyone, there's someone out there who can hike your project. I just don't see what it takes away from me as the equipper if someone else has sent the route. I guess that, to me, establishing a route is about contributing to the community.
It still comes down to the question of wether I can do that route or not. Just because someone else has doesn't help or hurt me. I may not want to see anyone else on it or hear about beta for it (in a sort of 'onsight' way), but it just seems to make no difference to me and that bit of rock wether anyone else has climbed that bit of rock.
In the end, I think it's best to respect the wishes of the equipper - particularly if (s)he has done a ton of work and only has one project at a time.
* Given your modesty and generally subtle nature, you might consider changing your nic to "allah akbar" Maybe someone else has the patience to explain?
Allah-- please enlighten me as to why you feel entiitled to get on any tagged route you want. Do you really think you are Allah? That sort of attitude will wear out your welcome real quick.
Somebody mentioned length of time for projects. I don't know how long Brilliant Orange has been there. I do know it was the last route I put up out there, and one of the last routes at Coalbank. It does seem like it has been there awhile though... as have other routes on that wall. And for that matter, I am pretty certain the red consists of some projects that have been there even longer. This really does not pose a problem because there is so much rock in the red, and more than enough for everyone to be happy. No real issue exists when you think about. The only issue is if people want to create one.
As far as Brilliant Orange, the route isn't even that hard. The problem with the entire wall over there is it is often wet, and on Brilliant Orange specifically the crimps greasy. The season is short on the gold coast wall...ask anyone who has projects over there. This isn't to say they couldn't be done during the off season weather, but there are definitely more enjoyable places to climb during these times.
I don't care whether a route is 5.7 or 5.14. If the route is redtagged, people need to give the bolter the courtesy of doing it. Some may argue it is so people can get the FA, some because it is a nice courtesy, some because it is nice to climb it clean before other people's ticks marks and grease, etc. The reason doesn't matter so much in my opinion, and there is no need to give justification. Anybody can put up a route...anybody can find a cliff, gain access, etc. Rock is everywhere and enough exists for everyone to have their piece. Problem is it is a lot of work, and people like it when things are already in place for them. This seems to apply to climbers in general. That sucks about climbers as a group if you ask me. Climbers like to reap the benefits, and give nothing back. They like to be armchair supporters and give out donations (which is good, but not enough). It would be great if climbers would even just do a little to help out...like with the trails. But no, they don't want to waste their valuable climbing time. Rarely have I seen a climber (who doesn't bolt) help out with cliff maintenance. The coalition is the exception, however.
On another note, there is an open project on that wall. I posted about it on another forum. It is on the main section of wall, third from the right. Should have a red tag. Pretty short, steep, and probably not too hard...probably soft 13. All I ask is the person that does it buy me a six pack (of good beer) and bring me my draws.
Somebody mentioned length of time for projects. I don't know how long Brilliant Orange has been there. I do know it was the last route I put up out there, and one of the last routes at Coalbank. It does seem like it has been there awhile though... as have other routes on that wall. And for that matter, I am pretty certain the red consists of some projects that have been there even longer. This really does not pose a problem because there is so much rock in the red, and more than enough for everyone to be happy. No real issue exists when you think about. The only issue is if people want to create one.
As far as Brilliant Orange, the route isn't even that hard. The problem with the entire wall over there is it is often wet, and on Brilliant Orange specifically the crimps greasy. The season is short on the gold coast wall...ask anyone who has projects over there. This isn't to say they couldn't be done during the off season weather, but there are definitely more enjoyable places to climb during these times.
I don't care whether a route is 5.7 or 5.14. If the route is redtagged, people need to give the bolter the courtesy of doing it. Some may argue it is so people can get the FA, some because it is a nice courtesy, some because it is nice to climb it clean before other people's ticks marks and grease, etc. The reason doesn't matter so much in my opinion, and there is no need to give justification. Anybody can put up a route...anybody can find a cliff, gain access, etc. Rock is everywhere and enough exists for everyone to have their piece. Problem is it is a lot of work, and people like it when things are already in place for them. This seems to apply to climbers in general. That sucks about climbers as a group if you ask me. Climbers like to reap the benefits, and give nothing back. They like to be armchair supporters and give out donations (which is good, but not enough). It would be great if climbers would even just do a little to help out...like with the trails. But no, they don't want to waste their valuable climbing time. Rarely have I seen a climber (who doesn't bolt) help out with cliff maintenance. The coalition is the exception, however.
On another note, there is an open project on that wall. I posted about it on another forum. It is on the main section of wall, third from the right. Should have a red tag. Pretty short, steep, and probably not too hard...probably soft 13. All I ask is the person that does it buy me a six pack (of good beer) and bring me my draws.
Don't forget Chris Martin. He remains behind the scenes, but has put up numerous routes at the red.
Also Neal Strickland..he puts up great routes and is the hardest working trail builder I have ever seen. I think building a killer trail is as much a feat as putting up a great route....personally...
Also Neal Strickland..he puts up great routes and is the hardest working trail builder I have ever seen. I think building a killer trail is as much a feat as putting up a great route....personally...
JR wrote:Lets do that Spraqwa.
Lets give thanks to the Bolters.(no paticular order)
Porter Jarrard
Steve Cater
Doug Reed
Chris Snyder
Brian McCray
Jeff Moll
Nick and Beth Cocciolone
Hugh Loeffler
Rob McFall
Kellyn Gorder
John Bronaugh
Terry Kindred
And the other guys too.
Thanks.
To me, personally I feel as long as I dont do the route then it is ok to get on it, ive always believed the person who bolts it should be the one who does it first, unless they open it up. I've always believed that and have always stuck by it. Another thing, I haven't bolted anything yet, but you know I was at the Military maintiance this past Sat.and the weather was awesome too, I'm not part of the coalition. I'm not trying to be a dick and do your project thats not me and that isn't the way I am/work. Hey, I'll tell you what, when you get a chance to get back to the Red, let me know and I'll buy/cook you dinner and hell I'll even buy you what ever beer you want, so we can talk about all this in person, cause I dont want anyone having beef with me or vise versa. My e-mail it Bclimbrman2@aol.com, let me know if you would be up for that.
Hey Allah, if you want something hard to get on try my route over there. Its all of 100ft to the right of this stuff and its an open project. Check out Gecko Circus post.
Oh man, he is messing that up. However, he is missing his left leg so that way would probably be harder for him. SCIN, just before spraying some beta for a climber doing a route the WRONG way.