Belay/Rappel Loops

Placing a cam? Slotting a nut? Slinging a tree?
User avatar
michaelarmand
Posts: 527
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:08 pm

Post by michaelarmand »

pigsteak wrote:and one biner and one gri gri?
and one belayer?

There will be single points of failure in any system. Worry about the one that is most likely to fail...
User avatar
bcombs
Posts: 2048
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:20 pm

Post by bcombs »

michaelarmand wrote: Worry about the one that is most likely to fail...
Which is probably the forearm. :lol:
kdelap
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:33 pm

Post by kdelap »

Awe yes the belay loop.

Let see, so first of all it is redundant. It is a piece of webbing that is wound around itself. It is also sewn around on each side as well as bar tacked. We have tested some of these by just duck-taping them together. The start to disassemble around 3000 lbs. of force. (slow pull)

Belay loops are the strongest part of the climbing system. Even the weakest belay loops we have tested blow at about 8000 lbs. of force.

After the Todd Skinner accident there was much testing on belay loops done. One test in particular was cutting the belay loop 90% of the way through and then pull testing to failure. It was holding around 700 lbs of force.

I see people all the time putting this extra cord to "back up" their belay loop. The problem with this is that it is cluttering up your "work space". I have seen someone accidentally clip into their "backup" cord only. To put this in perspective a 6 millimeter cord can only hold around 1500 lbs of force. This is only twice what a 90% cut through belay loop can hold; so not really nessasary and can cause more problems than it could ever help.

As for backing up the Figure 8. There is no need. This actually has been found to cause more problems than it could prevent as well.

The reason that we only use one carabiner to belay is that it is right in front of us and easy to inspect. You can use 2 with an atc, this just adds friction.
Same for the rope (unless you are using doubles) we should be inspecting this as we belay.

Take every thing off your harness at the end of the day and inspect those belay loops and you should have no worries!
http://www.foxmountainguides.com
User avatar
cliftongifford
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:57 am

Post by cliftongifford »

yeah, what everyone else said...
Dman
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:50 pm

Post by Dman »

a cam would pull out or even a bolt before your loop would break
Lextown climber
User avatar
rjackson
Posts: 928
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 3:26 pm

Post by rjackson »

Just check, double-check and triple-check.

It's all mental. And so long as your gear is in working order, it will be a human mistake that will lead to the accident.

Listen to kdelap.
Pick myself up, stop lookin' back.
Grand Funk Railroad
Huggybone
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:08 am

Post by Huggybone »

Two words: Todd Skinner
"Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water."
User avatar
heath
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:24 am

Post by heath »

Image
"You're a long way from home now, Buddy" - Ted kindly pointing out a ran out mess.
User avatar
ReachHigh
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:17 pm

Post by ReachHigh »

Huggybone wrote:Two words: Todd Skinner
Todd's belay loop was visibly damaged before it failed and if I remember correctly he was aware but though he could use it just a few more times.
"there's a line between self improvement and self involvement"
"Dogs are nature's pooper scoopers ."
pkananen
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:20 am

Post by pkananen »

heath wrote:Image
From their website: "Two belay/rappel loops make setting up for rappels and multi-pitch belays easier"

They don't give you two because you're supposed to use both when belaying. They aren't trying to make it redundant!
Post Reply