Training with added weight...

[bcombs]

OK, so I'm getting my ass handed to me on RC.com because I am an advocate for training with a weight belt. Has anyone here used this as a training tool? Were the results good or bad and why?

Personally, I think its fine to train with added weight while doing some routine climbing. I don't think its safe to climb at or anywhere near your limit, but I do think it has a place in the training routine. What do you guys think?

[512OW]

Absolutely.

I routinely run laps on 11s at RQ while wearing a 10lb. vest.

First off, theres an obvious advantage to training at a heavier weight than your performance weight. Every other sport knows it.

Climbers consistently try to lose weight so that they can climb harder. Imagine how much stronger you'll be when you can do your project at 10 lbs. over your real weight, and all you have to do to drop 10 lbs. is undo a buckle...

I can't imagine how anyone could argue it. When used properly, heavier weight promotes growth of strength. Period.

But if you can't afford a weight belt or vest, definitely do diet pills and laxatives. Its all the rage...

[ElectricDisciple]

Eric Horst advocates what you speak. He calls it "Hypergravity". If Horst says it's good, then it's all right! RC.com folks are kinda wierd anyway.

[bcombs]

...Climbers consistently try to lose weight so that they can climb harder. Imagine how much stronger you'll be when you can do your project at 10 lbs. over your real weight, and all you have to do to drop 10 lbs. is undo a buckle...

That was my point. I gave an example of a 200lb climber that has been climbing for two years, takes 8 weeks off and runs everyday resulting in a 20lb weight loss. After returning to climbing he can climb two letter grades higher immediately. Is this a result of losing 20lbs or is it that he's been training for two years with 20lbs of extra weight? Clearly he's just stronger than if he had been climbing for two years 20lbs lighter.

I think the confusion for some folks comes from the application of knowledge from other sports concerning sport specific training. If your someone who is already highly skilled (say a 5.13d climber) and your trying to hone your skills to do 5.14 then maybe sport specific training without weight might be the only way to do it. But for average joe's like me trying hard just to climb 5.12 the increase in power far outweighs the "negative transfer" from resistance training. It's not like I'm some professional baseball pitcher trying to fine tune my fastball. I'm just trying to learn how to throw something other than underhand.

[rhunt]

I think adding weight might be helpful but carries a huge risk. You put your joins, usually the weakest and most vunerable parts of our bodies at risk for injury...shoulders, elbow and fingers, etc. I have a divers belt and did some of Hurst training with it one winter and didn't notice a difference than the usual training I did then. I also disagree that weight loss means you are stronger, it just means you are lighter and have a better strength to weight ratio. Everytime I got more serious about cardio fitness which meant losing about 5/10 pounds I saw gains in my outdoor redpoint and bouldering project goals. If I just did climbing specific training, the gains were less. If you are an aspiring 5.12 climber, all you need to do is increase your skill and experience on rock, doing lots of climbing, increasing your technique, footwork and mental game, not "hypergravity" training. If fact its the elite that benfit from these special training trick more than us weekend warriors.

[bcombs]

I think adding weight might be helpful but carries a huge risk. You put your joins, usually the weakest and most vunerable parts of our bodies at risk for injury...shoulders, elbow and fingers, etc. I have a divers belt and did some of Hurst training with it one winter and didn't notice a difference than the usual training I did then. I also disagree that weight loss means you are stronger, it just means you are lighter and have a better strength to weight ratio. Everytime I got more serious about cardio fitness which meant losing about 5/10 pounds I saw gains in my outdoor redpoint and bouldering project goals. If I just did climbing specific training, the gains were less. If you are an aspiring 5.12 climber, all you need to do is increase your skill and experience on rock, doing lots of climbing, increasing your technique, footwork and mental game, not "hypergravity" training. If fact its the elite that benfit from these special training trick more than us weekend warriors.

That makes sense. Let me ask you so that I'm clear. Do you think the strength to weight ratio moves up and down equally as the weight of the climber moves up and down? What I'm getting at is would you have been that strong in the first place had you not climbed with the extra 10 lbs on your body? Another way to look at it is, all things other than weight being equal (training, skill, mental, etc..) if there are two climbers, one at 200lbs and one at 180lbs wouldn't the muscles used in climbing be stronger on the 200lb guy? Of course this is impossible since all people are different, but it seems like the 200lb guy would be able to pull harder. Maybe I'm drawing too much of a direct parallel to weight lifting? Any advice is appreciated.

[Saxman]

I don't see how 10-30 pounds added weight would hurt your joints as long as you were doing basic workouts like Horst advocates with his H.I.T. strips.

[captain static]

Horst makes the point that weight training is for the elite athlete. He also has specific instruction on what precautions need to be taken to minimize the risk of injury. There are so many other things for the weekend warrior to focus on training wise, weight training is probably not worth it. Bcombs, have you made an assessment of your weaknesses? If not, do so and then work on those areas.

That said, I have used weight training when I was at the top of my game. I also remember back in the day when Souders and Manimal used to traverse Eden Park Wall with a 35# pack. So it does have its place.

[rhunt]

bcombs, I don't really know much about the science of weight ratio. I just know what has and has not worked for me and I've been climbing for about 13 years now. Ask pigsteak about all the winter training tricks we were trying. HIT was fun and interesting but for me in the end I never saw any gains worth much. It seems to me that our bodies are only able to perform well with what we have(weight) and when we add more weight with a belt we run the risk of tearing soft tissue in a bad way. Maybe the lurkist will speak up here and give us the science to that. I ended up with a major shoulder injury from over use and who know if weighted HIT strip training contributed to it...probably did. Captain static said it best, make an assessment of your weaknesses and then work to improve them. I would also recommend that climbers focus more on general cardio fitness. You'll get fit if you climb A LOT but if you can only get out 2 or 3 weekends a month then you'll need to do more cardio to be as fit as possible. One year I spend a lot of time weight training doing climbing specific exercises and concentrated on leg stuff that increased strenght but not mass. I also did a lot of core stuff then too and both helped a lot. I was in really good cardio shape and my legs and core where both very strong in was they needed to be to climb...that made a huge difference that year.

[chriss]

Its funny that bcombs posted this now, as I just started doing this myself a week ago. I think that 512ow got it right, and I disagree with rhunt. I do not think there is a huge risk. As with anything else, go into it slowly and overtime increase the weight that you are using. Two years ago I was 25 pounds heavier, so climbing with a 10 pound vest puts my body under less stress than before. Also, done correctly this will help prevent injury by building up your connective tissues and getting your body used to such stress. Just like finger boarding, if done correctly it can help to prevent injury.

Your skill, technique and experience on the rock can only do so much for you. (I do agree with rhunt that cardiovascular endurance is very importan) At some point you are going to have to have some power as well. I heard someone say "technique is no substitute for power" which I agree with.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents.

I think adding weight might be helpful but carries a huge risk. You put your joins, usually the weakest and most vunerable parts of our bodies at risk for injury...shoulders, elbow and fingers, etc. I have a divers belt and did some of Hurst training with it one winter and didn't notice a difference than the usual training I did then. I also disagree that weight loss means you are stronger, it just means you are lighter and have a better strength to weight ratio. Everytime I got more serious about cardio fitness which meant losing about 5/10 pounds I saw gains in my outdoor redpoint and bouldering project goals. If I just did climbing specific training, the gains were less. If you are an aspiring 5.12 climber, all you need to do is increase your skill and experience on rock, doing lots of climbing, increasing your technique, footwork and mental game, not "hypergravity" training. If fact its the elite that benfit from these special training trick more than us weekend warriors.