Core strength and conditioning

[gulliver]

fair enough 8)

[gbarnett]

From link #1:

Core conditioning and flexibility is but one cog in the wheel of injury prevention, but one that is often overlooked.

From link #2:

While improved speed and strength are the most appreciable benefits of core conditioning, reducing the risk of injury is another benefit of strengthening the muscles that provide balance and stability to your legs and arms.

From link #3:

Injury avoidance is another benefit of core training. For example, knee pain is something that is common to bikers, runners, and many other athletes. Many forms of knee pain are the result of poor alignment of the knee over the foot during a running stride or pedal stroke. Strengthening the muscles of the hip and buttocks can help maintain this proper alignment and reduce stress on the knee joint.

Then we have OB Juan:

That being said I stand by my initial statement about lack of core strength being the number one cause of limb injuries.

Your claim is not supported by any of these articles.

Also, with regards to the last link, I'd argue that the root cause of the misalignment in the knee is almost always caused by the foot. Correcting the alignment of the foot with proper shoes or insoles will put the knee back into place. Core training can probably do the same thing to a certain extent, but gravity will eventually win.

[OB Juan]

gbarnett, I told you early on in this thread that you would make a fool of yourself and you have thoroughly done so. Later in this thread I repeated a phrase I heard about being better to keep your mouth shut than open it and let everyone know your a fool. You failed to heed that information also. You have established Zero credebility to have an opinion about anything printed on this thread and yet you insist on doing so and have exposed your ass beyond the ability to recind it. You claim that none of the articles support my claim based on pettines on your part, and you are entitled to that. I contend that everyone else is intelligent enough to understand the intent of the statement and to decern that if a given set of strengthening exercises is repeatedly claimed to help prevent a given set of injuries, failure to perform those exercises would be a cause subjecting the individuals to those injuries. Your attitude is that you are right and you are smarter than myself, the people whose articles I've posted and probably anyone else in the world based on some of your posts on other threads. I would ascert that you are an ego maniac with an inferiority complex and a fraud. Where are your credentials to discuss this topic much less attempt to refute a leading authority on their research findings.

Yes that's right you felt comfortable enough in your egomaniacal post directly above to call into question the findings of Dr. Darin Leetum, Dr. Mary Ireland and their peers. You probably aren't aware of the fact that Dr. Ireland is an internationally known orthopedic physician, or that she was and may still be the official orthoped of the US Olymic teams. Then again you probably didn't realize that she has repaired the knee joints and lower extemity tendons, cartlidges, and ligament injuries of several pro athletes, countless NCAA athletes and God knows who else, right here in Lexington Ky. You would be welcome to call her at her at the Kentucky Sports Medicine office at Alumni Dr. and New Circle Rd. to tell her of your findings that a good pedietrist and shoe inserts could repair all of those misalignment problems she discovered in her research. Why hell I'll bet we should all just go out and buy a set of Dr. Scholls for our sneakers and climbing shoes, and close down the orthopedic medical industry.

You have shown your ignorance, and not in a small way. Congratulations now everyone on this board who has viewed this thread knows your a fool.

I will no longer attempt to discuss this topic with gbarnett I cannot overcome ignorance or psychological complexes. I will however continue to discuss it with anyone else who may have intelligent comments, insight or questions.

I chose this line of response to the above post for the benefit of guliver and friends

[k9]

OB Juan, you're harsh, dude!
gbarnett did give his credentials. He ran in high school, has played volleyball and has (or has had) a injury.

I don't know know Dr. Ireland. I'm not a collegiate athlete (any more). But I've still heard of her and her work. I don't pretend to understand every word of the paper in the link you posted, but I don't call her research and finding into question because of it. I'm certain she has a better understanding of the biomechanics SHE has studied than I do.

I gotta go take the garbage out so the damn dog wont tear it up or I would continue on this enlightening thread.

[Paul3eb]

man, you seem like a real dick. obviously i don't know you but through this forum. you seem to lack another type of "core" strength and it's the leading cause of injuries to those around you.

chill the fuck out.

i only hope you're different in person.

[OB Juan]

Paul, before you pass judgement on my dickheadedness you should read the thread, the whole thread. I believe you'll find that I'm the only one presenting any data or credentials and those who are in dispute have provided nothing but weak opinion.

I'll repeat myself again, I am sick and tired of some individuals using petty shit to criticize a post by someone and demanding credentials while hiding behind the cloak of anonymity without offering up a shred of legitimacy. If they want to argue the point then let them place their credentials on the table as well and provide the data to back up their comments.

[Paul3eb]

Paul, before you pass judgement on my dickheadedness you should read the thread, the whole thread.

actually, i haven't, which is why i said "you seem to be" and "obviously i know you only through this forum" and "i hope you're different in person".

i do, however, think it's a point of failure that you blame the students and not the teacher. if your purpose was to teach and educate, then responsibility lies on your shoulders for not having got the message across successfully and having yelled at several of your students.. not to mention alienating several others who have seen your react so harshly.

don't pass the buck.

[OB Juan]

Ok, fair enough but I am not attempting to be the teacher. When I started this I simply thought "ya know there a alot of climbers who might minimize the risk of injury through some simple preventative training".

I don't really think I should have to Provide a complete set of credentials to post the info or be crucified for not posting a host of research, which I did and still got cucified for. If I am the teacher as you say then this thread must be alot like high school in the modern era where students are disrespectful, biligerent, and self centered. The only difference is that I'm not a school teacher and I do not have to be crucified and accept it. Yes the teacher has a responsibility, and yes the student should also do they're homework.

[flyinglow]

Attitude towards others on the forum goes a long ways toward keeping things civil and running smoothly. I've not been the nicest person here lately, and neither have some others. I am reading some of the informational links provided by OB juan. It's interesting reading, and i'm learning more about core strength and exercises than i knew before.

Thanks for the useful links.

OB Juan, I don't want to fight and argue about this anymore, because i think there *IS* valuable information to be learned here. However, what put me on edge early on isn't the information you've posted, it's your attitude towards others.

I'm not saying there's not a lot of truth to what you're saying, just that you made statements that were too sweeping to be proven scientifically and then you reacted a bit immaturely when questioned on it. As you said yourself later on in the thread:

You want stats on climbing injuries related to poor core strength, there are none, its not a significant enough athletic community for anyone to do a specialized study, but you should already know that.

If passing on useful information to others who share yor passion for climbing is truly your intent why have you gotten so angry when questioned?

For my part, i'm sorry for being a jerk, I get riled up when I think someone is making a blanket statement that they can't adequately support. This is particularly true when an attitude of superiority is conveyed along with it and even more so when the poster is claiming to be an expert in the field. I've been talked down to a lot in my life and it's not much fun.
(is it?)


peace, Zack

[pigsteak]

paul, ob juan comes off like pigsteak, eh?

rhunt, you heard that...lurkist is admiring your six pack...better not let him down brah.

ob juan , thank you for your input. we just like to be asses at times. it is definitely not personal unless you decide it is.