Muir Valley or Sandy's ass - as good as they say?

Post by **robertmueller** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:54 pm

I've been a climber in the gorge for a long time, but have never posted on this site before, although I do check it periodically for beta on specific routes. I posted the comment about Little T-bone in the online guide before I created this account, sorry.

No disrespect to those who have put up the routes in Muir, I just want to know if the routes are going to get realistic quality ratings when the updated edition to Ray's wonderful guidebook eventually comes out in the far far future. I am well aware that Muir Valley has it's own grading scale for difficulty, but is it fair to trick climbers into coming there, expecting routes such as Little T-bone to be the best 5.10a trad route in the Red? Routes like Rock Wars, Excalibur, and Headstone Surfer come to mind as better 5.10a. And what about Tradisfaction!? you have to scramble up ledges for half the route before the dihedral even begins. Great route, but not classic! Go check out the route Data Dump for a much better, continuous dihedral. Other routes I question include

The Offering is better than C Sharp B Flat?

Dynomite is better than Creature Feature?

International Route of Pancakes actually gets 2 stars!? And Subatomic Fingerlock only gets one? Hmmm... I didn't think anything under 40ft. got 2 stars, and it was discouraged to bolt things only 3 bolts long.

First Fall is better than Africa?

Kentucky Waterfall, a variation to an already overlyhyped climb that is constantly wet is as good as Synchronicity, Thunder Chicken, and Rebar?

Buddha Slept is a 5 star, must do classic? The crux climbs the opening moves to another route, a sport route that only gets 4 stars, yet is a much better route. After branching from the sport route, you continue through some easy, bad rock before a good move or two near the end. A classic should be pretty sustained in my opinion.

The list of appauling overgraded quality ratings goes on and on. I don't mind that Muir is laughably soft, it makes the gumbies feel all warm and fuzzy about themselves when they spray at Miguel's, but shouldn't the quality ratings be fair? This only sandbags other climbers looking for classics to come to Muir when they could be getting on real classics elsewhere in the Gorge. I've climbed the routes mentioned above, but I'm sure there are many more like them that I have overlooked or not been on, so please feel free to add to my list.

Post by **coop** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:00 am

I don't want to get into that mess, but I do have a question while we are talking about quality ratings. Why is the printed guidebook based on a 5 star system, and the online voting based on a 5 star system, but when you view the quality rating next to routes on the online guide, they are based on a 3 star system?

I think the online guide should also let you select a bomb rating or maybe a negative rating option. I've given routes one star on the online guide because that is the lowest grade I can give, but actually would like to select "Horrible, would never climb again"

Post by **SCIN** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:24 am

I pushed Muir into the guidebook at the end of a crunch. I didn't even have time to really read the content (thanks to Jared for providing all of that!) before sending it off to the editor. It was insane. However, I feel good that I was able to get it into the guide because it's a great place to climb.

You see, Jared has this "problem" called exuberance. He is very excited about climbing anything and everything. I can't blame him. I completely understand because I suffer from it as well. Each line I do I think is "the best line in the Red!".

I'm sure I'll have time to check it over a little better when the next edition comes out. Sorry if anyone was mislead by the quality ratings. I think I pulled a lot of them from concensus ratings in the online guide anyway so that may have been a mistake.

Trying to provide quality ratings is tough. I decided to use the online guide concensus ratings for routes which I hadn't been on and even for routes I have been on. Sometimes I used it straight up and sometimes just for a sanity check. That way it isn't just my opinion that I'm using. I love every route I do just about. That's a problem and the concensus ratings help with that problem.

Coop, I just haven't had time to get around to changing the system you're speaking of. Thanks for reminding me though because it does need to be done.

Post by **Andrew** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:38 am

Buy your own cliff, give everything zero stars and grade everything 5.7. problem solved.

Post by **Artsay** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:03 am

SCIN wrote:You see, Jared has this "problem" called exuberance. He is very excited about climbing anything and everything. I can't blame him. I completely understand because I suffer from it as well. Each line I do I think is "the best line in the Red!".

This is completely true. And it's not just with climbing...it's with everything with SCIN; Each meal I cook "is the best thing in the world!" and he completely means it. I'm sure Jared is just like this too.

"Problem with exuberance"....hehehe

...things could be worse!

Post by **Spragwa** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:24 am

Wow exuberance as a problem?

Post by **mcrib** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:36 am

I think that this is a good question to bring up. People seem in love with the idea of muir and why not it is a fantastic place. But bad rock is bad rock and I've seen it bolted eveywhere (Mercy miss percy and Stay Left at military come to mind) including muir.

Post by **Power2U** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:04 am

I seem to have that same problem... just look at my tick list... I've been on dozens of weirdo routes around the Gorge, and for the most part I like to refer to them as, "Hidden Classics." This is b/c I love to climb...well everything

I think the high number of stars and softer grades at Muir, which, I do agree are not in line with Porter's old grades from the early 90's, is fine. As long as it is understood by the community that this is the case. Word gets around. Trust me when someone does Manifest Destiny, 12a at the Solarium and then goes to the Lode and tries Chainsaw Masacre, also 12a, they'll know which one is "real" they won't need anyone to tell them.

Climb something, anything, and enjoy then repeat

Post by **Green3** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:15 am

I don't think it's a "problem", if you love climbing you love climbing. Not sure how you got involved in this J-Rock, but keep doing what you're doing, put ten stars on all your routes if you want...
Nick

P.S. Thanks for everything

Post by **john e aragon** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:17 am

climbing is a game played by only one player. winning, losing, is decided by that player. so you get a very, very screwed up game. so play at your own risk, and feel free to bitch when my rules don't match yours. but that will not change my rules!