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so after spending three and a half hours and a 5.5 haul with a full rack and all the gear on an "obvious trail with about 100 feet of fourth class scramble at the end" (sugested 30 min hike) I can truly appreciate what our community has. Thanks Ray and all the rest.

Most of us don't know how good we have until we hit other major areas. We are SPOILED! Thanks again Ray, Michelle and everyone who has helped with the site.

Hey, no problem. It's fun stuff. I hope it wasn't me that got you lost, Krampus.

Were u in WV? Sounds like some of my unlucky adventures

we were in red rocks with a 2005 version of the guidebook. We chose an obvious trail with a scramble at the end but wound up on the wrong side of a huge valley with a nice view of the climb we were trying to get on. It was actually a fun hike and reminded me of the off-trail hiking days but ruined our day of climbing, we only made the second pitch before it got dark.

krampus wrote:so after spending three and a half hours and a 5.5 haul with a full rack and all the gear on an "obvious trail with about 100 feet of fourth class scramble at the end" (sugested 30 min hike) I can truly appreciate what our community has. Thanks Ray and all the rest.

Not trying to be a dick or anything but are you really trying to blame your failure to climb this route on the guidebook?
Did you talk to anyone about the approach?
I don't mean to take anything away from Ray or anything but how hard is it to describe the approach to Roadside Crag or The Gallery?

damn, you caught me. but really, it was all slab, my feet hurt, it was cold, and I had not had my wheeties or breakfast

That's what I thought.

Buster wrote: Not trying to be a dick or anything but are you really trying to blame your failure to climb this route on the guidebook?
Did you talk to anyone about the approach?
I don't mean to take anything away from Ray or anything but how hard is it to describe the approach to Roadside Crag or The Gallery?

The big red book for Red Rock stinks as far as detailing approaches. Everything looks the same in the desert and there is a lot of washed out sections. While I was out there we tried to find Panty Wall, parked at the first pullout, never found the approach trail, and ended up at Magic Bus about a mile away.

There is a new guidebook for Red Rock. It is much better. New color photos of the routes and easy to follow trail guides. It's also about half the weight.

I agree with Buster, but I've met parties on two seperate occasions who were at Emerald City, but believed they were at Roadside.

Twice!!