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I have heard many climbing areas have linkups and variations. In general, the Red doesn't have a ton of these, although it seems almost infinitely possible(think Solar Collector). Do we just not credit these kind of climbs because I am sure they have been done. Who hasn't heard of Tissue-Ho, Stained-Wood, Bohica-Power and Snooker-Ball? I guess there are a few that share the same start a la Table and Mercy, Aqua pocket and the other two, Darth and Jedi Mind tricks. So what is the deal? Should our grid bolted routes give points for link ups and variations?

i definately think that variations would be sweet. we only have a couple at our local crag but you could have some pretty sweet linkups down at the red. i heard somebody saying that a linkup between dracula '04 and the top of lucifer would be a possibility.

Variations for sure. They would help me push out a third edition of the guidebook.

I have no problems with it, but if the bolts are already there, then won't people do it anyway if they want to. If they are not creative enough to link them then they don't deserve the fun.

VARIATIONS RULE! what a great idea!

name it, and I'll add the link up bolt.

the chronic with tradsucker.
scrambled porn and stella
possum lips and mercy miss percy
minimum creep and jac mac

Here we go again.

I don't like most variations. Two routes sharing the same first couple bolts is fine if that is the only start to two obvious lines, but variations everywhere are dumb.

Variations are for places with limited route potential and that is not the red.

The Hole at the new is a perfect example of variation lameness. There is only two real lines in that place in my opinion, bloodraid, and lactic acid. The rest is just stupid.

You can do variations all you want just don't claim them as FA's or claim points, they have all been done anyway.

FA, FA, FA,FA ,FA,FA......points, points, points, points, points....

what??? since when did the word "points" become part of the climber's lexicon? talk about lame Mr. Andrew.....what in the world would be the difference?

if you work a route 20 tries to redpoint it, why would it be any different to link it to another route you have done and call that a redpoint also? Sport climbing is arbitrary to start with.....because I spot it first, I get to dictate to all mankind where the route begins and ends. By placing bolts at select places, I get to dictate when/where folks rest on a route, thereby breaking up the flow of movement. If I want to spark your adrenaline, I get the option of placing runouts on the line. if I want you to bitch, I get to bolt choss (my favorite). I get to name a silly piece of rock with some witty two words that makes a person roll their eyes or scratch their heads. Playing bolt gawd is fun.

Does that make the harder version of Table ghey? Since the original version came in from the right, isn't the left start the same as a link up? if I decide to hog an entire wall and put up a line that sweeps 45 degrees across the wall, am I a visionary or have I ruined the potential for three other lines?

To link or not to link...one more rule for the sport that used to place a premium on non-conformity and freedom. we have become no better than a high school basketball game with team uniforms and referees.

Now it is time to link my redriverclimbing.com scorecard to my 8a.nu scorecard....I am a pathetic loser that has bought into this game, and I care about numbers, redpoints, being listed as a FA, climbing 5.13a, ticklists, stick clipping, tick marks, and west nile virus. And now I feel better.

So come on Andrew, tell me your favorite dream link up..we can make this happen.

"oh here we go again. look at me, my name is andrew and i am a tall, skinny tampon-for-a-human standing on my tall, skinny soapbox. i don't like variations. i am so tall and such a great climber because i have ethics and opinions about crap that no one cares about. i am so fabulous! i just love to prance around miguels in my little pink scarf and be the happy little cowboy that is 10 feet tall."

dude, why don't you quit posting here. seriously. no one cares about you or anything you say. go teach some kids about useless tall-people crap.