Question about Jumaring fixed lines

Post by **Don McGlone** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:04 pm

I am doing an adventure race in less than two weeks. One of the disciplines will be fixed ropes. I have never jumared a fixed line. I am getting some instruction this weekend and I generally understand how it works, but am a little confused on the equipment I need. I need to order the equipment now in order for it to be here in time for the weekend. This is taken from the gear list guide for the race:

* 2 ascenders. Must be commercial ascenders with the appropriate runners to safely do a vertical ascent and be able to negotiate an overhang. You will be required to have at least 2 hard points ( a hard point is an ascension device) on the rope at all times, preferably 3. We recommend that 1 of the hard points be a chest ascender.

Does this mean that I would need both a left and right hand ascender along with a chest ascender, or would I just need 1 hand ascender with a chest ascender? Do you have to have a chest harness to use a chest ascender? Any additional info would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Post by **Jeff** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:19 pm

Sounds like you'd need a left and right ascender and a Croll chest ascender.
You can use a couple of two foot slings together around your back and over your arms to attch the Croll to if you don't want to spring for a chest harness.

Post by **sparky** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:28 pm

Are you wearing a pack when you're doing this? It seems to me that the idea of having the chest ascender is to catch you if you fall back in your aiders with a heavy pack on or if you are fatigued it would just keep you in close to the rope.

you can simplify a chest harness for this purpose into on piece of webbing tied off in a loop, make and x in the webbing and then put in on like a jacket with the x across your back then take a locking biner and clip the two loops together in the front and this is your hard point to clip into another ascender. Leave the knot in the webbing on the front side so you can adjust it to fit snuggly. this third ascender could possibly be as simple as a prusik or tibloc if it's purpose is for the above stated reason. The advantage of a croll ascender is that it will move up the rope easier after being weighted then the above stated devices

Post by **ynot** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 10:51 pm

i picked up a chest harness pretty cheap for the same reason,I think it is BD. Works great with the Croll,and takes some off the work out of ascending.I used Tiblocs,they're small and light,but the teeth could chew a rope. It all worked great in a tough spot.

Post by **Legion** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:02 pm

Go over to www.rockclimbing.com and find the guy that calls himself Pass the Pitons Pete. You won't have to search very far to find his posts on the subject.

Post by **littlefeller** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:20 pm

hey don try this if you have time. this is what the boys and girls are doing at petzel,a left handed acender with a large foot loop and a daisy backup to your harness,use a gri-gri as your other acender,but instead of pulling the slack from the gri-gri in a upward motion attach a pully to your left handed acender and run the slack that you are pulling through your gri-gri through the pully and the motion is downward(more narural)the pully reduces alot of the friction. good luck with the race.

Post by **andy_lemon** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 5:44 pm

I would think that a chest acender would slow you down? Your going for speed right? Why not just the L & R acenders? Never used a chest acender before...

Post by **ynot** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:12 pm

The chest ascender doesnt slow you,it's pretty much self feeding with some rope under it,and it ties you in at just the right point on your body to take the effort out of the system,it also keeps you upright.

Post by **Don McGlone** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:06 pm

Thank everyone for the suggestions. What I have ended up doing so far is a right and left hand ascender with daisy chain backups. Saturday we set ropes up on a less-than-vertical concrete slab and it was a piece of cake. But yesterday I tried it on an overhang. Much harder! Seemed like I was pulling with my arms more than I was standing in the aiders. Seemed like my problem was not being able to stay verticle enough to transfer my body weight to the aiders. Sparky, I tried the sling chest harness, but I only had a sling attached to it and the rope (not as a "hard point") in an effort to pull me closer to the rope. I have access to a Gibbs Ascender that I'm going to try as a third hard point at my chest this evening. I'm also going to try different foot placements in the aiders. Also, the description of the race mentions pulling an overhang. I'm not sure but I believe there is a particular technique involved in this. Would anyone have any suggestions?

Post by **tomdarch** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 7:27 pm

If you know wether it's a slab or free hanging, that would make a big difference. As far as I know separate daisy/jumar/aider setups are better for slabs. For overhangs, though, "Texas" style has worked better for me. With a Texas setup, you have a longish daisy for one hand (right) high without aiders. You then run a shortish daisy for your other/lower hand (left) with both aiders/feet. You stand up with both aiders, pulling in with your low hand and slide up the top aider. You then sit down on the high daisy/jumar and lift up your low hand/feet. This way you are always using both legs together.

Either way, practice is critical (but I guess there's not much time) Getting your setup fine tuned and gettting smooth with the movements and balance will massively speed you up and be less tiring (personally, I haven't done enough jugging to get 'good' so it always wipes me out!)

If they get picky about the 'third point' you can always slap a croll on a long sling to your belay loop and put it above your high jumar. When you slide your high jumar up, it gets pushed up above the jumar.