RRC Archives

Spragwa's post about the trade show got me to thinking of the number of times I've heard complaints about the Red lacking an abundance of elite level routes (5.14 and up).

I heard one person say the reason there aren't many elite level routes is because of the long spells of less than perfect temps we see here in the summer and winter.

Do you think that's the reason or do you think the Red just doesn't lend itself to that grade of route?

they are out there...

I do think our climate has the most to do with it but I also think it has to do with the way the rock is featured at the Red. It is usually just too featured for the elite level.

So get the drill out of storage and go bolt em Piggie.

tell ya what wolf..it isn't too fun bolting that far over my head....call me cheap, but I don't want to spend money on hardware , not counting my time, on routes that I will never/ever even get to taste. anything out of the 5.12 range and I'd rather have one of the strong guys bolt it.....allah (cough, cough), etc...now, if sopmeone wants to buy the hardware, I might be convinced.

I think the rock is fine for super hard routes, and I think the red has a ton of potential really good super hard lines. The proplem is the people. I have had this discussion with others before about the red. No offense to anyone and some of our best climbers would agree with me but we don't have many super strong climbers. And the biggest problem is we don't have any super strong climbers that are motivated to develope.

Kenny is probably our strongest current developer, and he is bolting some sick stuff, but I really think you need people who climb mid to high 14 to be motivated to develope and send the stuff locally. Our developers really don't climb that hard.

Another thing that I think is interesting is the fact that at the red almost all sport routes go nearly straight up and down. We also have very few link ups. Many other sport areas have routes that go diangnally across the wall or a feature, and there are many hard routes that are link ups. Don't get me wrong I think this is a good thing. We just have some much good rock that there is no need for linkups and traverses.

Its plain and simple, you need very strong climbers who are motivated to push the limits and spend some time and money. Its hard for a 5.12 climber to determine if a route is 5.14c/d or impossible.

I agree Andrew yet I still think it mostly has to do with climate and the type of rock. The Red has been on the map for over 10 years as a highly concentrated sport climbing area, yet none of the 5.14 climbers who have came to visit thought it was worth settling down here. The reason routes here at the red go straight up is because there is always enough features/holds to go straight up. Which is part of the reason why routes usually stay in the mid 12 to mid 13 range. The red will never have the concentration of 5.14 like many limestone crags do. And those limestone crags are usually in a climate where it is dry and cool most of the year.

I do think we can get a lot more 13+ routes up if stronger climbers learned to drill.

I think the climate / temps argument is lame. Mike Doyle's send of Lucifer is evidence of the potential for pushing the grades higher. Sometimes it takes outside blood to break the local paradigm. Look at Petro's send of WTOK and the subsequent surge of new, hard trad lines.

One question I would like to see answered this fall is if 50 Words is impossible or not? It would be interesting to know Bill Ramsey's take on this subject since he is both strong and knows the local stone? I hear though that he has recently moved to Vegas and will be teaching philosophy at UNLV this fall.

Most, not all but most, hard routes have manufactured holds - that could be a big reason right there why the Red doesn't have any (or more than one anyway). Look at all the rock in England, and how many 9a's are there, like 2 or 3?

how many locals guys have sent 5.14 that still climb? I would gladly loan them my drill.

andrew has it right. it is hard to develop routes so far past one's climbing ability.