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I have had a few discussions with folks recently about this issue.

What exactly is a FA of a route? when does it happen? Can there be more than one person on the FA of a sport line, or is that reserved for multipitch? On the old aid lines, did the people consider jugging their lines a FA? So when a line goes all free (like the Nose), it is now a FFA?

Here is why I am asking. I bolt a sport line at the gorge. I toprope it clean. My buddy then sends it on lead. I give us both credit for the FA...is that incorrect? I have done this with several lines.

One person said.."for two people to get the FA, the sends have to be back to back, both on lead..if it takes the second person three more tries, then they would get the second ascent, not an FA"

I have noticed that many lines in the Red have been put up the last few years with as many as 5 people on the FA...old lines in Yosemite always had two people....

Does the local community have any standard for this?

If I jug a line while bolting it, do I get the FA? How about on TR? Is it OK to put my belayer on the FA, even if they don't send? (Without them, I could not have sent.)

TR = doesn't count, person who sends on lead = fa, plus naming rights. FA decides who else gets to get credit.

I think most of the time we see multiple people as FA's here in the Red is because of all the hard work that usually goes into a line other than actually climbing it. I bet that a lot of those getting credit for FA's are getting it because of lots of time spent cleaning, helping bolt or helping with all the trail work etc.... This is the Red and just like any other place in the world that has climbing, we make our own rules and thats just fine by me, if that means people get some recognition for hard work, then great.

Personally, I think we should start citing the bolt manufacturers as part of the FA. Can you really argue that you would have been able to FA a sport route (this is in the Sport forum, after all) without Petzl or whoever else made the bolts you used?

You could add the draws, harness, and rope as well. Maybe even you vehicle.

I enjoy the apparent, at least local, tradition of "upgrading" the First Ascent (FA) prominence based on style.

If a route is ascended by use of gear for direct aid or even jumared, then the portion of wall has technically seen an assent. Regardless of the style of ascent in which was first used to ascend the wall, it is an FA.

If someone after the first ascentionist ascends the portion of wall in a style which is less [dependant upon use of gear for direct aid] and less [dependant upon pre-place protection], then the style of that FA supersedes the previous in the guide book in regards to primary route name, grade, and FA information.

The climbing community has differentiated the subtleties of [dependence upon use of gear for direct aid] and [dependence upon pre-placed gear] by categorizing styles of ascents which helps makes these differences more apparent.

While not an exhaustive list of categories, traditionally it would seem that the hierarchy of FA prominence would be the following:
- Free solo
- Traditional
- Sport
- Top roping
- Aid
- Ascending pre-placed rope

the FA section is going to sound like a NASCAR interview. I'd like to thank petzl, fixe, sportiva.............

man, this sort of stinks to me...I have bolted several lines recently (past 6 months) that are right at my leading limit. my plan was to do them on TR, name them, and then open them to all others. but if you are tellling me that the name may be changed, the FA "upped" to the better standard, etc, then forget about opening these lines until I send them on lead...may be a year or two, so sorry.

My original plan was to add the next person along side my name to the FA...

caspian, when has a route in the red ever been renamed or "upped" when it's been free soloed?

You bolted them you send them however you want too and name them whatever you want. Don't let one person set the standard for you. You put the work in so its your route. Being dogmatic about FA's is only going to lead to projects being closed longer (as piggie points out)