Chasing Numbers
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:48 pm
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Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:59 pm
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:09 pm
Amen brother Watterson!!!
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:25 pm
I still don't understand why people think that climbing hard and having fun are somehow mutually exclusive. Hell, in the red the really, really cool routes are mostly 5.12 and up (the moves on Soul Ram are exponentially cooler then the moves on something like c sharp.) So, quite using the so very lame "I just want to have fun" excuse for your failure to progress as a climber, because you all know that if you had a choice, you would be "having fun" on 5.13's, rather then 5.10's.
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:30 pm
wes, your heart rate monitor is strapped on too tightly... 
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:31 pm
Your right Wes, everyone has their own reasons for being out there. I dont aspire to climb 13, never will. To me the perfect day is going out and getting on 10-15 new routes mid 11 and under. Not aspiring to hit harders #'s is by no means failure at progressing as a climber. You can be strong as shit but still a gumby climber.
Can someone that has a printer print that off ? It would be cool to hang on the BWOSS.
Can someone that has a printer print that off ? It would be cool to hang on the BWOSS.
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:41 pm
I would hardly call not being able to climb 5.13 "failure to progress." That's like saying you are a failure unless you make $500,000 a year. I wouldn't be surprised if the percent of people above those thresholds are similar.
People have fun doing different things. To some people climbing the same route 100 times until you can finally do it is fun. To others simply being outside and climbing rock instead of their usual plastic is fun.
People have fun doing different things. To some people climbing the same route 100 times until you can finally do it is fun. To others simply being outside and climbing rock instead of their usual plastic is fun.
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:44 pm
fun is just a crutch for those who cannot embrace pain
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:53 pm
That's so true so neither sets of mentalities need to chastize the other for what they choose to do.dhoyne wrote: People have fun doing different things. To some people climbing the same route 100 times until you can finally do it is fun. To others simply being outside and climbing rock instead of their usual plastic is fun.
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:54 pm
Wes. I personally never said they were mutually exclusive, and i doubt that Mr. Watterson is saying that in the Calvin and Hobbes cartoon either. Alan might be... but i feel your comment (having come right after mine) was directed at me (human nature).
My personal opinion is that you currently believe that cool moves start at 5.12 and up because that is where you are climbing. I daily see climbers on routes at their limit (whether it is a 5.6 like C-Sharp or maybe a 5.11 like Yellow Brick Road), that consider those moves cool and fun. I specifically recall being a noob and climbing face up to that crack and C-Sharp and Creature Feature and Bedtime for Bonzo and other "easy" climbs, and just thinking that it didn't get much better... that the roof, little fingery water grooves, big plates, and thank god jugs, were just ridiculously fun. As i progressed and those moves became easy, they honestly became less fun to me, but that does not mean that the rock itself changed, only my perception.
There is a certain elitist attitude in saying that a route is "fun for the grade", and I fall victim to it as much as anyone else. We all chase numbers to a certain degree, because we continue to want to find all those enjoyable moves. To climbers, challenge = enjoyment, or else we wouldn't really be doing it. Because of this, it is easy to get locked into a mindset that there is more fun to be had a bigger number, but you gotta admit there are some boring ass 5.12s out there... just as there are some terribly boring 5.8s.
So i call bullshit on you and calling me "lame" for not having fun on 5.13s... because honestly, how dare you say you "know" something about me or my choices, or what I enjoy. Do I want to climb at 5.13? Sure... hell i even worked out the first few moves on Dracula this past weekend and really loved that. But you know what, I'll have fun on 5.11s and 5.12s first since right now... that's where I'm challenged and that's where I "have fun".
That said, there are many climbers out there who get caught up in the number more than the fun. It is a fact. I see them at the gym all the time. They get bent out of shape and angry at failure to send a 5.12 on TR in the friggin gym. It is the number that drives them and not the movement or the challenge or the "spirit" if you will. I see this attitude in the first of a group of climbers to hit 5.10 just as much as the first in a group to hit 5.13. Instead of celebrating with the person, everyone else says "yeah, but I just climb for fun... that guy trains all the time. I'm not into that." Whatever... it is the elitism of the "lesser" climber here that irritates me. They are devaluing the accomplishment of another to feel better about themselves and are just as guilty as Calvin is in the cartoon up there.
This kind of ruining the spirit of something by applying science to it is something that always happens, and can't help but happen as it's human nature. so that's why i say amen brother watterson, not for giving me an excuse to feel better about myself, but for reminding me to climb for spirit and not for science... but to also strive to improve lest i get bored.
JB [/soapbox]
My personal opinion is that you currently believe that cool moves start at 5.12 and up because that is where you are climbing. I daily see climbers on routes at their limit (whether it is a 5.6 like C-Sharp or maybe a 5.11 like Yellow Brick Road), that consider those moves cool and fun. I specifically recall being a noob and climbing face up to that crack and C-Sharp and Creature Feature and Bedtime for Bonzo and other "easy" climbs, and just thinking that it didn't get much better... that the roof, little fingery water grooves, big plates, and thank god jugs, were just ridiculously fun. As i progressed and those moves became easy, they honestly became less fun to me, but that does not mean that the rock itself changed, only my perception.
There is a certain elitist attitude in saying that a route is "fun for the grade", and I fall victim to it as much as anyone else. We all chase numbers to a certain degree, because we continue to want to find all those enjoyable moves. To climbers, challenge = enjoyment, or else we wouldn't really be doing it. Because of this, it is easy to get locked into a mindset that there is more fun to be had a bigger number, but you gotta admit there are some boring ass 5.12s out there... just as there are some terribly boring 5.8s.
So i call bullshit on you and calling me "lame" for not having fun on 5.13s... because honestly, how dare you say you "know" something about me or my choices, or what I enjoy. Do I want to climb at 5.13? Sure... hell i even worked out the first few moves on Dracula this past weekend and really loved that. But you know what, I'll have fun on 5.11s and 5.12s first since right now... that's where I'm challenged and that's where I "have fun".
That said, there are many climbers out there who get caught up in the number more than the fun. It is a fact. I see them at the gym all the time. They get bent out of shape and angry at failure to send a 5.12 on TR in the friggin gym. It is the number that drives them and not the movement or the challenge or the "spirit" if you will. I see this attitude in the first of a group of climbers to hit 5.10 just as much as the first in a group to hit 5.13. Instead of celebrating with the person, everyone else says "yeah, but I just climb for fun... that guy trains all the time. I'm not into that." Whatever... it is the elitism of the "lesser" climber here that irritates me. They are devaluing the accomplishment of another to feel better about themselves and are just as guilty as Calvin is in the cartoon up there.
This kind of ruining the spirit of something by applying science to it is something that always happens, and can't help but happen as it's human nature. so that's why i say amen brother watterson, not for giving me an excuse to feel better about myself, but for reminding me to climb for spirit and not for science... but to also strive to improve lest i get bored.
JB [/soapbox]