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i'm going ahead and putting this in the suck forum because i can almost garauntee people will be upset about this even though i'm not trying to stir it up.

wes, sunshine, lurkist, any others...how do you decide which routes you will rebolt? i would've always thought that if you're going to go to the trouble to rebolt something it would probably be for safety reasons. now i think otherwise in light of retrobolting of such routes as out on a limb, forearm follies, soul ram, and now the mule. these routes never got climbed before rebolting...so did you all think that they would suddenly become popular because people were afraid of the deadly porter hangers? the thing is, no one ever does these routes post-rebolting...the possible exception being forearm follies (done by several people, but not near as popular as gung ho or any other .12a at military). so what's the deal with rebolting these kind of routes? i'm guessing personal reasons such as "so-and-so" re-bolter wanted a shot at doing the route.

Who cares as long as it gets new bolts. I will appreciate any upgrade in poor hardware. I guess there are some exceptions.

my point is that there is a lot of bitchiness towards anyone who suggests a route or even one bolt needs to be re-bolted IF so-and-so rebolts for personal reasons anyway.

Ho, since none of us are paid or even really thanked all that much for rebolting, I would say we rebolt whatever routes we want to do. Is that somehow wrong? And there are plenty of "Public service routes" that I have done or helped with that I really never climb. Like maypop.

no it's not wrong, and i'm not saying that your selfish because you rebolt routes that you want to do. just lay off when people mention that a bolt needs replaced. if you rebolted routes almost entirely for the community as has been mentioned before, then it seems like you would go rebolt those .10's at funkrock or whatever the sketchy route of the day seems to be for people.

Wes wrote:And there are plenty of "Public service routes" that I have done or helped with that I really never climb. Like maypop.

that is actually a burden you have re-placed on the climbing community. that route should have been left as is. hopefully somone would have been seriously injured/died because of bad hardware, and no one would have to be subjected to that steaming heap of shit again.

Wes wrote:Ho, since none of us are paid or even really thanked all that much for rebolting, I would say we rebolt whatever routes we want to do. Is that somehow wrong? And there are plenty of "Public service routes" that I have done or helped with that I really never climb. Like maypop.

There have been many routes / anchors replaced for the public good. FRC is in the clifty and no power drills are allowed, so fuck if I am going to hand drill 10 holes to fix the slabs. The "bitching" is about people that expect someone else to fix it, without even offering to pay for the bolts, buy a beer, etc. They just assume that it is someone elses responsabity to fix it for them.

Matt. Are you a dumbass?

Forearm Follies gets done all the time Ho. It's a great training route. But you are right. It is a safety issue. OOAL, FF had angle irons or sketchy bolts. The anchors on Mule were about 4 inches apart with a huge fissure running between them.

no terry, are you? contrary to what you're thinking right now i'm not giving you shit or trying to piss you off. seems like i'm doing bad job at that.

to be completely honest, i rarely notice fresh new anchors or bolts. i just don't pay attention to that stuff. that would be my guess as to why you all don't get thanked enough, or bought enough beer, or given enough blowjobs. i know you've told me routes/bolts that you've replaced, but i really can't remember. maybe everyone else does.

i just think that a lot of shit is given to those who request a new bolt or route replacement when your average climber doesn't notice that stuff.