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I respect your decision to close the climb, but I disagree.

The climb was never an "R" climb. Even if you do not put gear into the pocket that is six inches deep (hidden) or the pocket that is a bit more shallow (the one that held my falls), the fall is not that bad.

It is definitely more safe than ...........the Crazy Fingers / Shisc-a-bob scenerio.

I do not know what I did to piss Tim off, but YESTERDAY he specifically told me I was not a part of Team Muir. I have worked my ass off for the whole rock climbing community. I bolted five routes (classic) for other people (and only four for myself). I was crew leader on the Sanctuary trail last year and did half of the work by my self before the event.

I bolted one route for Tim (with his permission), because he had just had hernia surgery........and he never even said thank you! I have respectfully stayed off this route, yet he has never touched it and I just heard reports he gave it away.

I do not know what is up with the self procalimed "Sheriff", but all I have given has been upfront and quality. I have bolted one route this year. All other requests have been denied, and the "Sheriff" has changed his story three times now.

Jarred, Karla, and JJ have been super supportive of me and my efforts and tend to be confused why the "Sheriff" has black balled me.

My vision is beyond my abilities. When Andrew does Cherry Red, the whole climbing community will benifit........how so? The kids are the future, they need challanges, and they are stronger then us old schoolers. I am trying to help them have climbs at the Muir, also.

I really wanted my fortieth year on this planet, to be be special. After having to take three months off for a shoulder injury, the hopes of new climb (holy land) kept my dreams and motivation high. I finally got back on rock and the shoulder has come around. I have had a good year, but after being lied to, back stabbed, and stolen from by my ex-best friend, then the bull shit by the "sheriff"........this year has sucked!

I am not an overly emotional individual, nor am I afraid to admit how I fell. My feelings have been hurt. I do not think it will benefit anyone to curtail and diminish my positive energy, then spit in my face!

Oooh ........you are welcome Tim for me supplying footage of you for the New Video. I am sure you ment to say ...........

thanks

Greg Martin


Sorry Lurkist.........you did not get your six pack of Harp, but you tried so I thank you! Maybe we can split it.

wow...

I certainly appreciate the climbs that Spoon has put up and the effort he has put forward toward new route development. So thanks Spoon for all of your hard work. It is because of people like you that Muir has so many excellent routes, especially harder routes.

cheers spoonman

Thanks, Spoon for all your hard work. You're an all-around awesome individual!

Spoonman wrote:...The climb was never an "R" climb. Even if you do not put gear into the pocket that is six inches deep (hidden) or the pocket that is a bit more shallow (the one that held my falls), the fall is not that bad...
I do not know what I did to piss Tim off, but ...

Greg Martin

Whoa, Spoonman...

Before you launched into an attack on Tim, you commented about my posting of the closing of one of your routes until a bolt was put on it for additional protection. For a 5.12/5.13 climber, I suppose it might not be considered an "R". I, and several others, believe a 5.8 trad climber could find himself in trouble up there -- the kind that could result in a nasty decking. I also commented that it was a nice route. Thank you for your input and respectful disagreement.

Now, as for your unloading on Tim Powers... If you have issues with him, please take them to him. I would respectfully advise you to clear up misunderstandings privately, rather than airing dirty laundry on this forum. For those reading this thread and asking, WTF? remember that there are always two sides to a dispute.

Greg, you've just publicly shotgunned a lot of serious charges that could very well have been easily resolved. Now, I'm not sure what can be done to cool down the rhetoric.

Tim and the whole Muir team and I appreciate the great routes you've put up down there. But to avoid chaos, everyone, including you and me, needs to abide by the rules of route development established for MV.

Finally, I'm a bit puzzled by your comment on bartering out an MV route for a six pack?? Please clarify that via a PM along with any other issues you have.

Rick

Greg you are not telling the entire story.I had nothing to do with your route being closed. That was Ricks call. You have my phone # and could have called me first if you are unhappy with what is going on. When I approve a route it cannot be sold or given to someone else. There might be others that have asked do the same climb. You have installed anchors and routes in the past without approval and I let it slide. You are acting very immature! I have not had any problem with any of the other developers. You should have called me to find out why you turned down instead of making this post. Tim

Tim, see pm I sent.

Hmm... I don't really know what to say about all of this... I'd like to stay out of any disagreements between Greg and Tim so I'm just going to speak of my experiences in dealing with the route setting rules in Muir Valley. First of all, contrary to popular opinion, J.J. and I do not have a "free reign" in Muir Valley to do as we please. We've both been turned down on route requests, we've been asked to abandon certain routes, add bolts, move bolt placements, anchor placements, etc. Every route that I have ever put up down there has been discussed with Tim.

However, such things were always open to discussion. Several times we've argued about certain routes, but I've always understood that Rick has placed the route development responsibility in Tim's hands. This is a good thing because if it were up to me then there would probably already be 500 routes in Muir Valley and the situation would quickly become chaotic.

I've always respected Rick and Tim's decisions and I do my best to follow them (sometimes unwillingly). Even if I didn't agree with every one of them, I still played by the rules and went ahead and did as they wished so that I could continue bolting. Besides, they are in charge and I am not. However, I do appreciate it that they are willing to listen to my disagreements.

Most importantly, J.J. and I stay in constant communication with Tim concerning our development ideas and goals. Most of the time our route suggestions are approved. In the times that they were denied we simply sought out other routes instead. Tim has acted as a helpful advisor to steer us in the right direction and even though he won't let me bolt EVERY route that I want to do, I will still abide by the rules.

I definitely appreciate all of the hard work done by Greg and crew. He certainly has a good eye for classic hard routes and the ability to equip them and get them done. I sincerely hope that some kind of compromise can be achieved so that Greg can continue bolting in Muir Valley, but that is for Tim and Greg to work out... not us.