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I noticed today that my draws have been removed from the Roadside Cave. I abide by the code that if there are draws on a route, it means someone is working it. I don't mind someone climbing my draws left on a route, and I would run someone elses draws that were left as a project, but I would never think of stealing them.

I was wondering if anyone had any insights into the mindset that says, "Hey, free draws. Lets get them."

That's bullshit. Sorry you had your draws stolen Lee. The code is leave them be but obviously some people don't understand that.

Thanks, Ray. I just don't get it. Does whoever took them think I wasn't a capable enough climber to get them back? I would almost bet that some kid with a stick clip grabbed them.

I was wondering if anyone had any insights into the mindset that says, "Hey, free draws. Lets get them."

Probably the same mindset that thinks its ok to shoplift, steal cars etc on a smaller scale - although draws aren't really cheap, so....

busty wrote: Probably the same mindset that thinks its ok to shoplift, steal cars etc on a smaller scale - although draws aren't really cheap, so....

I'd be more inclined to attribute the mindset to the "route booty" concept, which states that if you leave gear on a route, it belongs to anybody that can get it.

ZSpider

That sucks!

Hmmm... anyone else think that the Squid is a very bad device?

One-Fall wrote:I was wondering if anyone had any insights into the mindset that says, "Hey, free draws. Lets get them."

Lots of ethics questions lately. Since you asked... As has been pointed out in other threads, ethics any more are just a matter of perspective. At the RRR premier, didn't a few people with kids express some dismay that they were not warned about the content of what was presented? The response was, hey, it was all for laughs, so it's OK.

This doesn't seem like much of a justification, but if that's all it takes to make it ethical, what's to prevent someone from saying, hey let's take all these draws, just for a laugh?

Now I'm not saying that this is the fault of any one person, rather this seems to be the general feeling of nearly everyone. So as long as ethics are just a matter of perspective, then you are at the mercy of anyone who can turn you into a punchline.

A long-standing climbing tradition of not poaching someone's project draws is not the same thing as having kids around AFTER a comic tells you that they shouldn't be present.

One-Fall, that really sucks that your draws were poached. I feel terrible for you. Many people knew your draws were on that route. The guilty party is either not from around here or new to climbing. (I really hope that's the case and that there was no nefarious intent) Anyway, I hope you get your draws back. Whoever did it should at least return them to Miguel's..."anonymously" or however.

Think of it this way - maybe the sun and humidity had rotted all the nylon, and the draws were a death trap just waiting to happen.

Maybe whatever greedy bastard stole your draws also saved your life....

Prolly not though.