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Hung out at Borders bookstore after the YMCA. Checked out Rock and Ice's June edition. Had a piece on a bunch of dead climbers. The ones that died in a climbing accident didn't surprise me, but the number of suicides was sorta shocking. Out of around the 15 I had time to read about, 3 had pulled the plug themselves.

I guess anybody with PSY101 can explain it fine.

ZSpider

It's probably not an unusual number when you consider demographics. Lots of people commit suicide - more think about it. If you're brave enough it has it's pluses 1. you pick where and how 2. you decide your own destiny 3. degree of pain and awareness is entirely your own choice. Personally i think i'd rather go looking into a beautiful, inspiring place like the red, while listening to my own music - than to go in some old nursing home or hospital where you have no choices. I've thought about it and chickened out - it is understandable - and honorable.

I totally agree with KD. And have had the same thoughts. Soloing to me would be an ideal choice, I can control it and if I am brave enough, let go and take the plung, and if I chicken out, down climb back to the ground. The main thing and most respectable to everyone else in the climbing community is not doing this with others around.

PS. I have never soloed but have thought long and hard about it at times. Well climbing to the 3rd bolt of a route doesnt count does it?

Gumby to solo climber: "You have a death wish"
Solo climber: "If I had a death wish, I would just let go"

KD wrote:It's probably not an unusual number when you consider demographics. Lots of people commit suicide - more think about it. If you're brave enough it has it's pluses 1. you pick where and how 2. you decide your own destiny 3. degree of pain and awareness is entirely your own choice. Personally i think i'd rather go looking into a beautiful, inspiring place like the red, while listening to my own music - than to go in some old nursing home or hospital where you have no choices. I've thought about it and chickened out - it is understandable - and honorable.

are we really that scared of getting old? are we really thinking of being this selfish with ourselves? i won't deny that it has.. "pluses".. but you're romanticizing an escape. we don't look at the alcoholic and say, "man, they've got it made." or the heroin addict, "that's where it's at." because they're escapes from reality and we pity them for their inablity to deal with reality. granted, those are a little different because they come with longterm health effects.

respectfully, i can't disagree more this that thought process. and you probably think that i don't understand.. believe me, i do. suicide is not brave. it is not honorable. let's say you're a .11c climber.. you step up to a .12d. which is braver and more honorable: getting on it, giving it a real go, and probably getting whipped around a little.. or walking away from it?

it's a decision that robs the world of so much.

as for soloing and death wishes.. it's nice to think that everything is on your terms.. but rocks break and feet slip. and not all falls are fatal..

There can be no honor in leaving loved ones to live with grief and guilt.

bullshit, suicide is not a romantic way to control your destiny. you are not alone. you exist in a web of people who all care for you.

it is also not brave. it is an escape from pain and suffering. a way to free yourself from not having to deal with crazy shit life throws at you. when you sit on the windowsill looking down you see relief in death. but it is an easy relief. it is cheating. being brave is trying to get your mind together and shit together enough to keep on going.

and those that are left behind. every time they see something that reminds them of you, they are left wondering if there was anything they could have done to make things turn out differently. or worse they lie awake at night trying to reconcile their feelings that they were part of the reason the person took their life. having of good time gets harder cause you think of your friend who was gone and how they would of enjoyed experiencing the good times with you.

i just hope none of you have to deal with the pain of having a good friend kill him/herself.

Well said Merrick.
A friend of mine put a 22 to his head back in 2000.
Kind of leaves you with an empty feeling.

KD wrote:It's probably not an unusual number when you consider demographics. Lots of people commit suicide - more think about it.

3 out of 15 is 20%. I don't have any figures at hand, but I don't think there's any way that's close to the blanket figures for the US or the world. I'm thinking maybe one out of a hundred, which would put that figure at 20 times the average.

ZSpider

Dan Osman once said something like, "It's not a death wish, it's a life wish. If I wanted to die then all I would have to do is just let go." I broke both of my feet once soloing when a hold broke. That really sucked... especially the hike out. No I am not so brave, but I am much smarter.

In Japan suicide is considered to be an honorable way to die and it is quite common. Personally, I think it is cowardly.

In a few minutes I will be leaving for the Red (alone). I really enjoy being in nature by myself and climbing on my own terms. Very peaceful. I might find people down there to climb with, but if not then I am fine spending the day by myself... I have done this often; exploring, fixing ropes, bolting routes, climbing them, cleaning them, etc. Usually this is the best time to go bushwhacking because I haven't found too many people outside of Team Muir who are comfortable bushwhacking or who can keep up with me.

Well, off to the Red I go...