Ratings

[Guest]

Are routes rated for the on-sight or with all known tricks(knee-bars, drop-knees, underclings, best clip holds, draws pre-placed, etc.)?

[bberlier]

I've heard it should be rated for onsight. But if someone comes along and finds a kneebar, it could affect the rating. If the FA finds all the tricks the rating shouldn't change much.

[SCIN]

Well, since most of the hard routes in the Red aren't onsited I'd have to say the rating would include anything the fa found during his/her attempts.

[Horatio Felacio]

routes are rated on two different scales. 1) this is the most widely used system. to belittle out-of-towners, locals, punks, spraylords, or other people the first ascensionist and his friends don't like. a perfect example is telling someone they just did a .12 because they used a kneebar. 2) less widely used, but still prevalent in the RRG. Very soft ratings largely due to the incompetency of the first ascencionist on the specific climbing medium required. Also used to boost one's ego, however, this is usually downgraded and rating system 1) takes over.

[ynot]

Someone informed me that ratings are subject to ratings of other routes at the same crag,so that a 5.8 at one crag may be like a 5.9 at another crag.I can see why with so many people putting up routes and it explains why some 8's are way harder than other 8's,or it could be that they are just different in style,but that's a trad perpective.I would think sport should be pretty much alike and the pump factor is a part of the rating,so a rest would change the rating.I thought all the routes at the Dome were sandbagged,but they were put up in the early 80's and they are consistent with each other.A 5.4 chimney I did there would be 5.6 anywhere else. I am willing to bet sport is way more consistent everywhere with ratings than trad.I would also agree with about all of the above .

[the lurkist]

The ratings should be totally objective and quantifiable. If you do it the way I did it, your cool. If you vary even a foot scum and find a better way that I didn't find, you obviously are an inferior form of life not worthy of sharing oxygen with me. And God forbid you do the route faster than me. That's fair, ain't it?

[merrick]

Here are the rules for when people try any routes that i have FAed.

1)NO KNEEBARS or other sneaky rests unless i used them
2 you must spend at least 2 seconds but no more than 4 on each hold.
3)you must follow my sequence exactly. if you mess it up, lower down and try again. ask me for beta, i will run up to the crag and tape off the OFF holds
4)you must be between 5'2 and 5'5. otherwise go climb someone elses routes.
5)and you must use the same shoes i used on the FA


if you don't follow these rules it would be unethical to claim you did my route.

sinner!

[Johnny]

I think it's a good approach to view ratings in the Red as a ranking from easiest to hardest of all the routes. Applying a bright line cutoff between say 5.7 to 5.8- or 12d to 13a is arbitrary, but convenient. Underlying it all is the pure subjectivity of a route's difficulty.
Hand size differs dramatically, for example, making certain routes actually easier or harder for certain climbers. Eg., Welcome to Ol Kentuck is probably 13a for me (as if I could do it) but clearly much easier for Horatio due to his slender hands. Thus, as he freely acknowledges, he sent the route for sure, but he didn't send a 13a trad route.
I would bet that What's Left of the Beeneling (wide fist crack) would be more difficult for him (excluding his better technique, etc.) than for me since I have relatively clubby fists. There are comparable arguments for sport climbing, but the differences are more subtle perhaps.
(the bait is in the water, now watch as predator/prey Horatio spots it and ferociously attacks...)

[Horatio Felacio]

i think you hit the nail on the head johnny. it is definitely my superior skill and flawless technique that have hindered my quest to climb .13a. i simply cannot find anything that hard.

[Gretchen]

We bow down to your superiority oh liquor master