slash

Post by **Paul3eb** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:18 pm

i was wondering if there's a particular reason why the gorge doesn't have many slash ratings. i think it would be useful at times. for instance, wild yet tasty: personally i don't think it's 12a, the move isn't that difficult. but others would mention the pump at that point. but considering there are much more solid 12a's out there, wouldn't this one be best called 11d/12a? this is just one instance but i think there are plenty more. any input? do people think slash ratings are just silly or not worth it? or would they be helpful with all of the routes that aren't solid on their grades?

Post by **rhunt** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:31 pm

10b/c 11b/c 12b/c etc that I understand, 10d/11a 11d/12a 12d/13a etc that I don't understand. To me there is/should be a large jump from the d to the next number a, esp in the higher numbers. 12d to 13a is a huge jump.

classic example at the New.. Lost Souls Is it 11d or 12a? It's in the book(at least the one I got) as 11d/12a

The fact that there are ratings like that d/a just goes to show how subjective the rating system is.

Shit...is anyone else as bored as I am at work today?

Post by **Paul3eb** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:39 pm

rhunt wrote:The fact that there are ratings like that d/a just goes to show how subjective the rating system is.

well right, of course. there's no alternative, though. you couldn't say: "ok, on a 21 degree overhang, it's 12a when crimps are half an inch, 12b at 3/8 an inch.. etc.."

my point is that there isn't always a huge jump in the difficulty. again, wild yet tasty: i've been on much harder 12a's and it felt much more in line with an 11d. but it was a hard 11d.. in that sense, there isn't a huge jump to the next grade but it would've been one of the harder 11d's i've been on..

i guess this is all kind of stupid because it's just a rating anyway..

Post by **dbrayack** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:43 pm

I've always been inclined to think that the split grades at the new were for reach. Like I have long arms, so Modern Primitive feels 12b for me, while as someone who is 5' 2" would feel like the move is 12c, hence it gets 12b/c "in the Thompson guide", because the move is significantly harder for all the runts out there.

Post by **dbrayack** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:44 pm

And about being bored, yah, i hear that, im looking at a 5 dayer at the red and all I have left is one class + one lab to teach that is inherently muffed up already. "the lab that is"

Post by **rhunt** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:51 pm

I think I understand what you are saying. Wild Yet Tasty and Ro Shampo were my first 12a's until people started calling them 11d. Many people with different strengths and weaknesess think Wild is solid 12a, they(my self included) agree that the long crimp move makes it 12a not 11d. You must be really strong at crimps or have a long reach and find that move to be more like 11d.

the way I have always understood the number part of the rating was to show subtle differnences in a certain range of difficulty. Jumping from one number to the next being a larger difference in difficulty....hence D to A being a larger jump than C to D. Does that make sense?

Post by **GWG** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:55 pm

There are so many factors that go into a rating. What seems like an 11A to me may be incredibly more difficult for someone shorter than I am. They may not be able to make the move because of the lack of reach therefore call it something out of their climbing range.

What about regional differences? Climbers from other areas come down and talk about the sandbag ratings in the gorge. "You call that a 5.11? Where I come from, that's a 9!"

I have an idea, why don't we rate it as follows:

Climb classification.First Ascent's thoughts/tall climber/short climber/local climber/visitor climber/strong climber/weak climber/sobor climber/drunk climber/stoned climber

5.11a/10c/12b/11a/10a/9+/12c/11a/v9/A4+

This way, you can make it anything you want! Kind of like the new age education style where 2 + 2 = 5 if the child really wants it to be.

Post by **rhunt** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:59 pm

GWG, That's awesome!

Should we have slashes in the V rating? V5/6

Post by **ynot** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:03 pm

At this point I feel like saying something mean,but I'll follow Ray's good example and refrain.

Post by **Paul3eb** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:05 pm

rhunt, i see what you mean about the big jump that you expect with the numbers. i still say, though, that there are those in betweeners out there.

GWG, i like it! seriously, though, i agree with your satirical post. if you make it "work" for everyone, it'd be ridiculous. as for the drunk and stoned climbers.. add the X rating.

again, maybe it's silly to worry about. it's just a minor difference in rating anyway and, beyond that, it's only ratings. in the end, what does it really matter?