Down vs. Synthetic
Down vs. Synthetic
I'm looking to buy an outer shell and looking for some input. I thought about down but am concerned that after a long hike would sweat decrease it's insulating properties. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
-
Guest
For years all i ever wore was layers! Gortex shell on the outside and fleece, etc on the inside. last Christmas Bryan got me a down jacket from Patagonia. I love it because I don't get overheated. It seems to adjust itself as needed. I love down period! My bed is down too. Got to love the birds and what they have to offer. I honestly don't give a rats ass about what brand you get. I am really not into wearing labels. I buy what fits, whats comfortable and what fits my needs.
Just genuinely disengenuous.
-
Guest
-
aaron
-
jabbathehut
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:17 pm
You always have to ask "How are you going to use it?"
If you're primarily interested in using it hiking in cold weather and you want to be out in the rain, then I'd say go with a 'polypro' type base layer (aka 'long underwear'), then a layer of 200 or 300 weight fleece (not down or synthetic) and a Waterproof Breathable outer layer (e.g. GoreTex)
dirt has it exactly right. You've got your base layer that wicks sweat off your skin and helps it to evaporate. Then you've got your insulating layer (wool is great for this because it doesn't like to hold any water and if you're set on fire it won't form a layer of flaming goo stuck to your skin - hey, you can't be too careful!
) Last is your outer layer that deals with wind and precipitation (rain and snow). GoreTex is what it is because it's waterproof and windproof but it lets water vapor (your sweat) through.
"Puffy" jackets make the most sense in two main situations: 1) When it's insanely cold - Everest, Antarctica, etc. Here, you just want as much insulation as possible and for that you want down. Dealing with moisture is secondary. (Besides, when it's that cold, it's usually low humidity) 2) When you are sitting around in normal cold. Ice fishing, football games, around the campfire winter camping, belaying on ice climbs, spotting boulderers, etc. Here you aren't putting out much heat, so you want to hold onto what you've got, and you also aren't sweating that much. For this type of use synthetic is a better value because it's usually cheaper.
I went with a synthetic jacket because once I'm old and creaky I'm going to climb el cap, and you really, really don't want down up there because of it's bad performance when wet.
"Puffy" jackets also pack smaller than fleece, so that can be a factor. If packing size is absolutely critical, go with down - it packs smaller than synthetic for the same insulation value.
In most situations where it's cold out but you want to stay active (hiking, skiing) go with fleece. It's main value is that it 'breathes' very well ('breathes' here means that it lets you sweat as vapor pass through it to your outer layer) Also, you're more likely to find fleece jackets with pit zips than 'puffy' jackets.
Either way, store your puffy stuff (jackets, sleeping bags) as loosely as possible - both down and synthetic loose loft if they're stored packed (synthetic is more sensitive to this than down)
I'm not saying that I'm not a gear freak, but I did work at an outdoor shop part time for a while, so I've given this speech a few times...
If you're primarily interested in using it hiking in cold weather and you want to be out in the rain, then I'd say go with a 'polypro' type base layer (aka 'long underwear'), then a layer of 200 or 300 weight fleece (not down or synthetic) and a Waterproof Breathable outer layer (e.g. GoreTex)
dirt has it exactly right. You've got your base layer that wicks sweat off your skin and helps it to evaporate. Then you've got your insulating layer (wool is great for this because it doesn't like to hold any water and if you're set on fire it won't form a layer of flaming goo stuck to your skin - hey, you can't be too careful!
) Last is your outer layer that deals with wind and precipitation (rain and snow). GoreTex is what it is because it's waterproof and windproof but it lets water vapor (your sweat) through."Puffy" jackets make the most sense in two main situations: 1) When it's insanely cold - Everest, Antarctica, etc. Here, you just want as much insulation as possible and for that you want down. Dealing with moisture is secondary. (Besides, when it's that cold, it's usually low humidity) 2) When you are sitting around in normal cold. Ice fishing, football games, around the campfire winter camping, belaying on ice climbs, spotting boulderers, etc. Here you aren't putting out much heat, so you want to hold onto what you've got, and you also aren't sweating that much. For this type of use synthetic is a better value because it's usually cheaper.
I went with a synthetic jacket because once I'm old and creaky I'm going to climb el cap, and you really, really don't want down up there because of it's bad performance when wet.
"Puffy" jackets also pack smaller than fleece, so that can be a factor. If packing size is absolutely critical, go with down - it packs smaller than synthetic for the same insulation value.
In most situations where it's cold out but you want to stay active (hiking, skiing) go with fleece. It's main value is that it 'breathes' very well ('breathes' here means that it lets you sweat as vapor pass through it to your outer layer) Also, you're more likely to find fleece jackets with pit zips than 'puffy' jackets.
Either way, store your puffy stuff (jackets, sleeping bags) as loosely as possible - both down and synthetic loose loft if they're stored packed (synthetic is more sensitive to this than down)
I'm not saying that I'm not a gear freak, but I did work at an outdoor shop part time for a while, so I've given this speech a few times...
Bacon is meat candy.
for climbing I find this to work well
optional is an light capilene type base layer
then a lightweight sweater (like R1) not a big burly fleece you're going to be climbing and most of the time this is work
and then a puffy jacket to wear when you are not actively climbing
i don't need a layer under the R1 b/c it wicks fine
for a parka
go with synthetic b/c you will sweat in it if you throw it on after climbing. Down will soak up the sweat and lose Rs. Synthetic will help dry you out and retain Rs.
200 and 300 weight fleece jackets are pointless for stop and go activities like climbing. They are too hot when you are climbing and not warm enough when you are stopped. They are also heavy and bulky as hell.
Check out Steve House's comments in one of the lastest Climbing mags.
I have a Mountain Hardwear Sub-Zero (which is down and an absolutely incredible jacket) and a Mountain Hardwear Chugach (which is synthetic and one of the warmer jackets in the synthetic category stuffs down to half the size of a 200 weight fleece and is warmer than a 300 weight) I am very pleased with both of them.
optional is an light capilene type base layer
then a lightweight sweater (like R1) not a big burly fleece you're going to be climbing and most of the time this is work
and then a puffy jacket to wear when you are not actively climbing
i don't need a layer under the R1 b/c it wicks fine
for a parka
go with synthetic b/c you will sweat in it if you throw it on after climbing. Down will soak up the sweat and lose Rs. Synthetic will help dry you out and retain Rs.
200 and 300 weight fleece jackets are pointless for stop and go activities like climbing. They are too hot when you are climbing and not warm enough when you are stopped. They are also heavy and bulky as hell.
Check out Steve House's comments in one of the lastest Climbing mags.
I have a Mountain Hardwear Sub-Zero (which is down and an absolutely incredible jacket) and a Mountain Hardwear Chugach (which is synthetic and one of the warmer jackets in the synthetic category stuffs down to half the size of a 200 weight fleece and is warmer than a 300 weight) I am very pleased with both of them.
something I have noticed being a large borderline extralarge dude is subtle differences in mfg sizing, a lg in Patagonia, Marmot and some others are 42-45 though a small difference than those that are 42-44 it enables me to get a better fit, like shoes it is very personal, also don't overlook the importance of hats and gloves, they can really add to the comfort range and pack light for the performance value