RRC Archives

well climbhigh and i got some interesting first hand experience on the holding strength of knots in webbing, the kindness of other climbers, and why to always have a shovel in your car.

technically my car wouldn't have gotten stuck if the back tires hadn't slidden off the slick, muddy, bumps between the ruts on the backwoods georgia road we were going down. i guess having 4X4 stickers on your car doesn't equal having 4X4.

luckily some other climbers were coming the other way and spent a half an hour helping pull our car out.

just so you know the bowline knot snapped where as the water knot(even with short tails) held fine.

i would just like to thank those climbers who helped us and any other climbers that have taken some time out of their day to help get someone unstuck.

Another example of "Trail Magic".

Receiving something when nothing in return is expected.

When using webbing, I'd never use anything but a water knot.

GWG

Duh...Wats a water not?

Was it a bowline in webbing that snapped?

Man! Tom knous evrethang..

Just kiddin tom.

Merrick, stick to bouldering bro... all trad climbers know water knot is the way to go when you tie webbing.

But since we are on the breaking strength of knots... it is I and some counterparts who disagree about the breaking strength of the retraced figure 8 and the double bowline knot. They tie in using double bowline, I use the 8. Which will hold the bigger fall?

They say the 8 is like five hundreths of a percent stronger (or something insignificant like that) than the double bowline. I use the double bowline with a bowline backup and it holds just fine.

Mj

They will both hold any fall conceivable. Arguing which is stronger is assinine. Use the one with the properties that you consider to be most important.

Now back to the water knot (technically, the version of the water knot that we use for climbing is called a ring bend, or an overhand bend)

It slips a little every time you load and unload it - no matter how much you "set" it initially. So leave generous tails and check them from time to time. This is especially important if you carry tied slings or when you are rapping from slings on a tree, etc.

There is data on the net that demonstrates the "creeping" during loading/unloading cycles as well as plenty of cases of climbers having their water knots come untied b/c the tails slipped through.

And unless you have a death wish don't tie a water knot in rope or cord - just webbing.

ok, I'm done.

Man i have towed BBerliers car a couple of times using webbing and I believe he choose the water knot as well. Held like achamp!