RRC Archives

Kind of surprised to not see this posted here already:

http://www.modernhiker.com/2014/10/21/i ... nal-parks/

Reminds me of the graffiti spraypainted on a few routes a while back. Just totally senseless.

That said, I think it would have been pretty cool if she had chosen to flip the script and depict the beauty of the natural landscapes she visited in urban areas, rather than ruining natural places with misplaced and objectively low-quality “art”. Seeing Half Dome spraypainted on a subway car, Crater Lake on a dumpster, Giant Sequoia trees creeping up the side of a building in an alley . . . that would’ve been an interesting (and inspiring, in my opinion) take on graffiti and the urban/nature disconnect. But that would require having some independent thought and a greater vision, rather than a child-like sense of entitlement.

A petition has been started to prevent this from happening in the future.

http://wh.gov/iOMLh

While I think its dumb and agree there should be laws to protect our public parks as well as private property in the urban environment against vandalism . I do find it pretty hypocritical that outdoor recreation users of all kinds are calling her out so harshly and acting like our shit dont stink. This post went around FB so fast and everyone had a mouthful to add to the mayhem. But if we could actually look in the mirror, user groups such as climbers/bikers and so on are causing much more long term damage/impact. Eroded trails of every kind, bolts in the rock, chalk everywhere you look, draws hanging, the 2 to 1 dog ratio disturbing the natural habitat, the impact of making all our favorite toys, the impact we have while traveling to and from and the list could go on for days. Again, what she did was plain ole fucking stupid, but there aint a one of us "using" nature that are doing anything any better....So where and who draws the line ?

There's a time and place for everything. A national park, which was set aside for everyone to go to see the natural beauty out there, is not one of them. Those places were created for current and future generations and should be protected the best we can while still enjoying them. A trail can be maintained and will minimize the impact long term. Acrylic paint is nearly impossible to remove. It is not hypocrisy; it is knowing the difference between right and wrong. Unfortunately, some people need to be reminded. The USFS/BLM allows us to climb on and enjoy the land they preside over. It is our duty to tread as lightly as we can. I ask myself, am I doing damage that wouldn't be erased by a decade of no use? It's called respect for others.

TradMike wrote:There's a time and place for everything. A national park, which was set aside for everyone to go to see the natural beauty out there, is not one of them. Those places were created for current and future generations and should be protected the best we can while still enjoying them. A trail can be maintained and will minimize the impact long term. Acrylic paint is nearly impossible to remove. It is not hypocrisy; it is knowing the difference between right and wrong. Unfortunately, some people need to be reminded. The USFS/BLM allows us to climb on and enjoy the land they preside over. It is our duty to tread as lightly as we can. I ask myself, am I doing damage that wouldn't be erased by a decade of no use? It's called respect for others.

I think it was AF that used the following to determine if your actions were acceptable. Imagine the activity/thing that you are doing and if there were ten thousand people doing the same thing. While other user groups do indeed have an impact, it is often far less per user experience. Imagine if there were 10,000 people being artistic like her. As always, a balance needs to be struck between user groups and the environment.

I was somewhat expecting the "Aren't petroglyphs just really old graffiti? What's the big deal?" rationale to appear, but I guess should've also considered the "Everything we do has an impact, so who are we to judge?" angle as well.

Sure, everything has an impact . . . but going out of your way to make more of an impact for self-aggrandizement is miles away from bolting a line or hiking a trail.

To say that "there ain't a one of us 'using' nature' that are doing anything any better" is ridiculous. Persons who pack out litter, volunteer on trail days, and donate to organizations that provide land stewardship are contributing a lot more than someone doing nothing but doodling with acrylic paint in places that detract from the landscape for all future visitors.

climbhigh wrote:While I think its dumb and agree there should be laws to protect our public parks as well as private property in the urban environment against vandalism . I do find it pretty hypocritical that outdoor recreation users of all kinds are calling her out so harshly and acting like our shit dont stink. This post went around FB so fast and everyone had a mouthful to add to the mayhem. But if we could actually look in the mirror, user groups such as climbers/bikers and so on are causing much more long term damage/impact. Eroded trails of every kind, bolts in the rock, chalk everywhere you look, draws hanging, the 2 to 1 dog ratio disturbing the natural habitat, the impact of making all our favorite toys, the impact we have while traveling to and from and the list could go on for days. Again, what she did was plain ole fucking stupid, but there aint a one of us "using" nature that are doing anything any better....So where and who draws the line ?

Yeah, I don't agree with that rationalization at all.

You're preaching to the choir about spending time helping and working on the lands we use. Id put my hours against anyone in the country....No offense but you're kinda blinded by your own stance to see the bigger picture....Im judging her, Im judging you and Im judging me........Im not defending her in anyways, fucking dumbass. Just using it and plenty other examples to maybe get folks to take a look in the mirror at how we treat our own surroundings and what is actual environmental impact.

While a drawing looks like shit for a long time, what we do as users on a daily basis will last longer as far as actual natural impact. Minus the humans visiting the area, the natural world does not give a shit if someone draws a face on a rock..... Your argument is that your visual happiness/aesthetic impact is greater than actual environmental impact of changing water drainages with trails which cause silt build up in the creek beds and the washing away of top soil layers if not done correctly, introduction of fecal/piss of human/dogs, introduction of disease(ask the bats and cavers) and other diseases/invasive things that have been brought in on shoe bottoms/snacks/fire wood, trampling vegetation that some have taken 50-70 years to grow(oh its there), cutting down of trees/moss/actual ecosystems and so on and so on and so on.....Again, Im not defending her, but the arguments everyone is using are not thought through. If I walked up on a dude doing that, I would punch him. But I realize its not for the protection of nature, its cause I dont want to see the shit and think he's being selfish to the vast majority of users that dont want to see that when they go to the woods. Call a spade a spade and be able to look at your own hand to see how you can play it better....Thats the point

climbhigh wrote:Again, Im not defending her, but the arguments everyone is using are not thought through.

No matter what we do humans are going to have an impact on their environment. But whats the impact of 1,000 people doing what she did versus 1,000 people hiking a trail or climbing a route? Its not even comparable. I see what you're trying to do but its not really a valid point.

1,000 people drawing on a rock. Is just that, 1000 people drawing on a rock. Nothing else in this world cares about it. Its a visual impact to humans. Again, wrong in my mind. But it does not affect the natural world and things living in it.

1,000 people hanging out at the cliff is much more of an actual environment impact. trampling a base, removing the lichen, removing the spiders, bats, birds, rodents, squirrels that live in the rocks, damage to the vegetation on top and most definitely the vegetation at the base, changing water drainages which in turn changes all the way to the sea.....you get where Im going.

Maybe I am way off base, but i dont think I am. Its like that book freakonomics. The ability to analyze a situation and see the cause and affect is a powerful tool humans can use. Ill always climb, Ill always bike, I plan on teaching my son to do it and hope he does the same. I realize everything we do has an impact and try to do what I can to alleviate that impact. But every user i have heard bash her, has done it on environmental impact stances. Its pure and simply aesthetic impact through human eyes. While again, punch a mother fucker if you see them doing it. But also be able to actually look at what we do as a group and create solutions to manage a larger problem of actual natural world environmental user impact.

Ive said my piece. You've said yours. Hopefully other will think next time they go to the woods and watch what the fuck they be doing.....