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How 176 feet of staircase was built and installed on the new Main Trail in a single day? Recruited the Purdue Outing Club (Liz and Rick's alma mater). 45 skilled, energetic students—many of whom are engineers-to-be. A big THANK YOU to all of those great Purdue kids and to their film crew for this first rate video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBBWQf1EJs0

That is some cool construction! Looks like they did a great job!

BUT, is that what our (edited because roto is correct, my bad) boy John Muir would build if it was his valley?

ynp1 wrote:That is some cool construction! Looks like they did a great job!

BUT, is that what are boy John Muir would build if it was his valley?

First off, it's *our* boy not "are" boy. Like your name says, you're still a dumbass. Second. How dare you question someone who has given so much to the community! I cannot believe you would do such a thing! If you don't like what they do feel free to not go there! You can go climb on Bob's "open" land instead!

ynp1 wrote:That is some cool construction! Looks like they did a great job!

BUT, is that what are boy John Muir would build if it was his valley?

Over the years, we've all seen what happens in this part of the country to steep trails with heavy traffic. They erode severely, resulting in an eyesore and poor management of the land. Building trails with water bars, rolling dip grading, and lower angles (< 7°) reduces the impact. But, some sections of steep grade—especially those having protruding base rock—don't allow for these trail building techniques.

Stairs have minimal impact on the land. The holes for the posts are the only "intrusion" on the landscape. A simple 32-foot section of 35-degree stairs provides an 18.4-foot elevation change, whereas a 7-degree sloped trail requires chopping up 150 feet of hillside to achieve this same change in elevation. That's about 600 square feet of virgin land removed for a trail right-of-way 4 feet wide. The stair has ten 4 x 4 pressure-treated posts that occupy a total of less than two square feet of land.

Where the stairs have been located in Muir, virtually zero erosion has occurred over the past ten years. Where steep sections of trail exist, some of the erosion is very severe. Over the next couple years, most of these sections will be restored and replaced with stairs.

What would John Muir say? He was well aware of the compromises that need to be made (in the form of trails and stairs) for people to access and enjoy natural places. But he would probably say, "keep those @#$%^ dirtbag climbers outta there."

The stairs look great!

weber wrote:

ynp1 wrote:That is some cool construction! Looks like they did a great job!

BUT, is that what are boy John Muir would build if it was his valley?

Over the years, we've all seen what happens in this part of the country to steep trails with heavy traffic. They erode severely, resulting in an eyesore and poor management of the land. Building trails with water bars, rolling dip grading, and lower angles (< 7°) reduces the impact. But, some sections of steep grade—especially those having protruding base rock—don't allow for these trail building techniques.

Stairs have minimal impact on the land. The holes for the posts are the only "intrusion" on the landscape. A simple 32-foot section of 35-degree stairs provides an 18.4-foot elevation change, whereas a 7-degree sloped trail requires chopping up 150 feet of hillside to achieve this same change in elevation. That's about 600 square feet of virgin land removed for a trail right-of-way 4 feet wide. The stair has ten 4 x 4 pressure-treated posts that occupy a total of less than two square feet of land.

Where the stairs have been located in Muir, virtually zero erosion has occurred over the past ten years. Where steep sections of trail exist, some of the erosion is very severe. Over the next couple years, most of these sections will be restored and replaced with stairs.

What would John Muir say? He was well aware of the compromises that need to be made (in the form of trails and stairs) for people to access and enjoy natural places. But he would probably say, "keep those @#$%^ dirtbag climbers outta there."

That was the best Fuck you I've ever heard/read. Thank you for that!

Like fish in a barrel. Nice shot Rick.

This fish is still swimming...

You are right Ricky, he would say keep those shitbag climbers out of there and PRESERVE the land. I am not a preservationist, so I think what you did was cool and I complimented the work of the crew you had.

But this valley is very far from being A valley john would be proud of... Building bigger parking areas so more people can come climb each day, shitters, soft grades, closely spaced bolts, radios, heli pads, and the list goes on... Like the saying goes, if you build it they will come... And they will come in thousands of climbers a year. Good luck preserving your land with that traffic...

Muir Valley is the worst name you could have given to your area. You represent nothing that the name sake stood for, or at least not in practice.

And the fish swims on...

More of a slimy invertebrate lost in the mud than a fish. How sad it must be for you to be so bitter and so ignorant at the same time.

Muir was vehemently opposed to the exploitation of natural resources by industry for the sake of profit, but he was a strong advocate of recreational access to natural areas for everyone to promote public appreciation and respect of nature. The Webers have done exactly that with their property, and in a highly sustainable fashion. Here are a few words from Muir himself that contradict your absurd presumptions of what Muir Valley's "name sake stood for":

"Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountains is going home; that wildness is necessity; that mountain parks and reservations are useful not only as fountains of timber and irrigating rivers, but as fountains of life."

“Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.”

“Let children walk with Nature, let them see the beautiful blendings and communions of death and life, their joyous inseparable unity, as taught in woods and meadows, plains and mountains and streams of our blessed star, and they will learn that death is stingless indeed, and as beautiful as life.”