RRGCC’s policy towards the “No Trespassing” signs
Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 5:18 pm
The first "No Trespassing" signs went up on, or about, September 3. Shannon Stuart-Smith, and RRGCC board member, Lee Smith, saw them for the first time on September 4, and informed the rest of the RRGCC Board of Directors on September 5.
The president of the RRGCC board of directors, Hugh Loeffler, called the house of Robert Stamper, the manager for Charmane Oil, on September 6. Mr. Stamper and Hugh spoke via phone on September 7. Mr. Stamper admitted that Charmane Oil was responsible for placing the signs but would not answer any further questions (Stamper indicated that he was so ordered by the owner of Charmane) and that all other questions about the signs should be directed to Charmane's local attorney, Elizabeth Short, in Beattyville, KY.
On September 8, John Bronaugh, attorney for the RRGCC called Ms. Short's office. Mr. Bronaugh has called six times and faxed three letters dated September 10, 16, 19, to Ms. Short asking for her to call him and for Charmane Oil to explain the signs. Mr. Bronaugh explained that the RRGCC plans to be the next surface right owner and wants to work with Charmane Oil but that Charmane Oil, as the gas and oil right owner/lessee do not have the authority to exclude persons that are lawfully on the premises. Ms. Short has not responded. Ms. Short’s secretary called on September 16, to say that Ms. Short had had dental work and could not “talk.” There has been no further correspondence from Ms. Short.
Mr. Murray was informed, August 29, by Charmane Oil that they were putting signs up. Mr. Murray does not agree with the signs and reaffirmed to John Bronaugh that “climbers have his permission” to climb there.
Gas and oil right owners cannot exclude the surface right owner or exclude persons who the surface right owner has granted permission to enter. Nor can gas and oil right owners exclude the surface right owner from use of roads on the surface right owner’s land, even if they are constructed by the oil and gas right owner.
Those are the facts. Until Charmane Oil responds we do not know with certainty what the basis is for the signs. Everything is pure conjecture. We do not know.
Since we have, what we consider the lawful surface right owner’s permission to climb there, we are allowed to climb there. On the other hand, we wish to cooperate, to a reasonable point, with Charmane Oil. The RRGCC will be in a long-term relationship with Charmane Oil when we purchase the land. Therefore we would like to start off with, and maintain a positive relationship with Charmane Oil. The RRGCC follows the basic tenants of conflict resolution and is trying to understand Charmane Oil’s concerns. Not all matters are best resolved by litigation. However, Charmane Oil has not responded and we do not know what their concerns are yet.
The RRGCC’s policy towards the “No Trespassing” signs on the Murray property is, in this case, despite the presence of “No Trespassing” signs, climbers do have, what we consider the surface right owner’s (Mr. Murray) permission to climb there. On the one hand, we wish to be as cooperative as possible with Charmane Oil. However, Charmane Oil appears to have “overstepped their bounds.” The RRGCC has given Charmane Oil ample opportunity to respond, and they have not. The RRGCC does not wish to intentionally antagonize Charmane Oil so we are encouraging climbers to reduce their climbing on the Murray property and “keep a low profile” for the sake of harmony. This is the current recommendation until we have further information. On the other hand, the RRGCC cannot and will not support what appears to be unlawful acts by Charmane Oil. We are trying to give Charmane Oil the benefit of the doubt, to a reasonable degree.
The RRGCC is proceeding successfully on schedule with the land purchase with the Murray family, who enthusiastically support our purchase, while we are still trying to pursue an amicable resolution with Charmane Oil. We wish to thank everyone for their financial support, contributions, and donations--they are greatly appreciated and are still very much needed to make this purchase possible. We have enough in hand, and in pledges, for the down payment to sign the contract. There will be an additional $15,000 needed to finish the environmental assessment (being conducted right now), survey, title search, and outside legal fees before the end of the year.
Shannon
The president of the RRGCC board of directors, Hugh Loeffler, called the house of Robert Stamper, the manager for Charmane Oil, on September 6. Mr. Stamper and Hugh spoke via phone on September 7. Mr. Stamper admitted that Charmane Oil was responsible for placing the signs but would not answer any further questions (Stamper indicated that he was so ordered by the owner of Charmane) and that all other questions about the signs should be directed to Charmane's local attorney, Elizabeth Short, in Beattyville, KY.
On September 8, John Bronaugh, attorney for the RRGCC called Ms. Short's office. Mr. Bronaugh has called six times and faxed three letters dated September 10, 16, 19, to Ms. Short asking for her to call him and for Charmane Oil to explain the signs. Mr. Bronaugh explained that the RRGCC plans to be the next surface right owner and wants to work with Charmane Oil but that Charmane Oil, as the gas and oil right owner/lessee do not have the authority to exclude persons that are lawfully on the premises. Ms. Short has not responded. Ms. Short’s secretary called on September 16, to say that Ms. Short had had dental work and could not “talk.” There has been no further correspondence from Ms. Short.
Mr. Murray was informed, August 29, by Charmane Oil that they were putting signs up. Mr. Murray does not agree with the signs and reaffirmed to John Bronaugh that “climbers have his permission” to climb there.
Gas and oil right owners cannot exclude the surface right owner or exclude persons who the surface right owner has granted permission to enter. Nor can gas and oil right owners exclude the surface right owner from use of roads on the surface right owner’s land, even if they are constructed by the oil and gas right owner.
Those are the facts. Until Charmane Oil responds we do not know with certainty what the basis is for the signs. Everything is pure conjecture. We do not know.
Since we have, what we consider the lawful surface right owner’s permission to climb there, we are allowed to climb there. On the other hand, we wish to cooperate, to a reasonable point, with Charmane Oil. The RRGCC will be in a long-term relationship with Charmane Oil when we purchase the land. Therefore we would like to start off with, and maintain a positive relationship with Charmane Oil. The RRGCC follows the basic tenants of conflict resolution and is trying to understand Charmane Oil’s concerns. Not all matters are best resolved by litigation. However, Charmane Oil has not responded and we do not know what their concerns are yet.
The RRGCC’s policy towards the “No Trespassing” signs on the Murray property is, in this case, despite the presence of “No Trespassing” signs, climbers do have, what we consider the surface right owner’s (Mr. Murray) permission to climb there. On the one hand, we wish to be as cooperative as possible with Charmane Oil. However, Charmane Oil appears to have “overstepped their bounds.” The RRGCC has given Charmane Oil ample opportunity to respond, and they have not. The RRGCC does not wish to intentionally antagonize Charmane Oil so we are encouraging climbers to reduce their climbing on the Murray property and “keep a low profile” for the sake of harmony. This is the current recommendation until we have further information. On the other hand, the RRGCC cannot and will not support what appears to be unlawful acts by Charmane Oil. We are trying to give Charmane Oil the benefit of the doubt, to a reasonable degree.
The RRGCC is proceeding successfully on schedule with the land purchase with the Murray family, who enthusiastically support our purchase, while we are still trying to pursue an amicable resolution with Charmane Oil. We wish to thank everyone for their financial support, contributions, and donations--they are greatly appreciated and are still very much needed to make this purchase possible. We have enough in hand, and in pledges, for the down payment to sign the contract. There will be an additional $15,000 needed to finish the environmental assessment (being conducted right now), survey, title search, and outside legal fees before the end of the year.
Shannon
