Seems like a lot of the new climbs coming out in the hard 11 range are more likely that they should fall in the easy 12 range. Sandbagging seems to be hitting new levels... but then again I can understand why:
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2473
Sandbag or Fluff:
Re: Sandbag or Fluff:
What new 5.11 climbs are you talking about?climb2core wrote:Seems like a lot of the new climbs coming out in the hard 11 range are more likely that they should fall in the easy 12 range. Sandbagging seems to be hitting new levels... but then again I can understand why:
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2473
Re: Sandbag or Fluff:
Disagree, there has just been so much grade inflation in 5.10-5.12- sport routes in recent years that now accurate YDS grades seem stiff.
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climb2core
- Posts: 2224
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:04 pm
Re: Sandbag or Fluff:
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2559
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2415
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2386
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2498
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2540
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2415
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2386
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2498
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... te&id=2540
Last edited by climb2core on Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Sandbag or Fluff:
Sadly, Scarlet Scorchdropper would be 11- in Yosemite, and you'd have to place gear... 11c is a pity grade. It is the Yosemite Decimal System after all! Rug Muncher is 11c if you do it right, but it's kind of a hard read. The tree up top also added a pity point to the grade to scare off bumblies.
Re: Sandbag or Fluff:
The one that has the most votes, scarlet scorchdropper, has the same consensus grade as the proposed grade. The rest of the climbs only have a few votes each. Do you really believe there is intentional sandbagging going on?
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climb2core
- Posts: 2224
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:04 pm
Re: Sandbag or Fluff:
I believe that I am bored and would rather be climbing than talking about climbing... but that has to wait to this week end. Beyond that, I think developers will error to the sandbagged for a few reasons:
1.) They don't want to be the next Shadow/Naked Lunch
2.) They are usually strong 12 climbers and and 11c to 12a seems like less of a difference than someone who tops out at 12a.
3.) If you are gonna be off a grade, better to come across as the hardman.
It is amazing how much the "set grade" will influence the grade someone gives as well. Look at Flying Monkeys... it was given 12a for ever and the user rating is still 12- but it is now 11c.
1.) They don't want to be the next Shadow/Naked Lunch
2.) They are usually strong 12 climbers and and 11c to 12a seems like less of a difference than someone who tops out at 12a.
3.) If you are gonna be off a grade, better to come across as the hardman.
It is amazing how much the "set grade" will influence the grade someone gives as well. Look at Flying Monkeys... it was given 12a for ever and the user rating is still 12- but it is now 11c.
Re: Sandbag or Fluff:
You are such a pussy. For some reason a lot of RRG sport climbers do a few mid-12's and suddenly they feel entitled to crush any 5.11 out there onsight. Sadly most of them are not even that solid on 5.10 once they leave the protective bubble of that typical "RRG style" (which in the spirit of full disclosure, I happen to suck at).
Last edited by dustonian on Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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climb2core
- Posts: 2224
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:04 pm
Re: Sandbag or Fluff:
Jeez, Dustin. You're just pissed because there wasn't more of your routes.
Re: Sandbag or Fluff:
I understand that we are using the Yosemite grading system but this is the RED RIVER GORGE which already has over 2000 developed rock climbs to use as reference when grading new climbs. When you grade something with the mentality of what it would be somewhere else its misleading and inconsistent with the climbs around it. While I like the idea of trying to get away from the Red's reputation of having soft grades its a pain in the ass to get on something you're expecting to be a nice warm up, then getting flash pumped out of your mind because you know your ego won't let you take on a warm up. Another thing I'd like to bitch about is if you're going to be a sandbagger, at least be consistent about it and sandbag everything so I'm not playing route roulette every time I want to get on something with your name on the FA (Andrew Wheatley)