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A lot of people have been on Pure Imagination and Golden Ticket; the grades are practically chiseled in stone. The obvious answer to an 'onsight' may be "shit I am climbing pretty hard and doing fairly well" instead of "those that touched this stone before me are wrong; my opinion should carry more weight than their collective experience."
-- Doesn't Ondra wonder whether people are going to think he is on an ego trip when he downgrades left right and center? Doesn't he think that these downgrades sound like the need to ego-stroke, and self-promote via downgrading?
-- Before a summary judgement about the grade on either of these, I would like to know that Ondra climbed them both at least twice.
-- Can anyone claim an onsight of Pure Imagination with all the videos out there?

Ondra is just an algebraic placeholder for Joe Climber. The two above are two strong tendencies that I see in my climbing pals. People that I usually feel are progressing at the time tend to choose the downgrade option.

1.) Only knowing Ondra from his public comments, I would suggest that he just tries to call it as he sees it and in fact if he wanted to fluff his ego would have kept the grade at 14d to have the worlds first onsight.

2.) It is possible to choose not to watch a video. You calling him a liar?

3.) PI also called 14c by Jorg.

4.) Why climb it twice? He just sent it and knows how it felt. If anything, the OS grade would tend to be higher.

5.) When did he say that anyone had to change the grade? He just gave it his personal grade. Sounds like your own insecurities are getting involved.

Are you sleeping with him Ian?

Golden Ticket was called 14c by our own local expert & always considered harder than PI. For some reason when Ethan Pringle dropped the d-bomb, that became the grade. I don't think many are surprised by the PI onsight, but the GT onsight is pretty damn impressive. It took all other repeaters many days of effort.

climb2core wrote:1.) Only knowing Ondra from his public comments, I would suggest that he just tries to call it as he sees it and in fact if he wanted to fluff his ego would have kept the grade at 14d to have the worlds first onsight.

2.) It is possible to choose not to watch a video. You calling him a liar?

3.) PI also called 14c by Jorg.

4.) Why climb it twice? He just sent it and knows how it felt. If anything, the OS grade would tend to be higher.

5.) When did he say that anyone had to change the grade? He just gave it his personal grade. Sounds like your own insecurities are getting involved.

1) Agreed
2) Agreed
3) Agreed
4) Agreed

caribe wrote:Are you sleeping with him Ian?

Typical response when you know you have no argument and that you are intellectually in way over your head

Oh, and btw I would only expect people that have climbed and sent PI and/or GT to respond to your silly poll. They are the only people qualified to offer an opinion.

The days of the printed guidebook being the final route grade master are gone. Elite grades are not repeated enough to make a quick decision and therefore move like lava. It's difficult enough to understand the true grade of a route that has been gangbanged by thousands ofclimbers throughout the years (Ro Shampo).

By the way, thanks for playing with my troll, Mr. Plumb Line, this week. On a climbing trip all week and needed a chew toy for the downtime. Haven't even seen Icebreaker and I don't remember an "awkward traverse" on the excellent Crown of Thorns.

SCIN wrote:The days of the printed guidebook being the final route grade master are gone. Elite grades are not repeated enough to make a quick decision and therefore move like lava. It's difficult enough to understand the true grade of a route that has been gangbanged by thousands ofclimbers throughout the years (Ro Shampo).

By the way, thanks for playing with my troll, Mr. Plumb Line, this week. On a climbing trip all week and needed a chew toy for the downtime. Haven't even seen Icebreaker and I don't remember an "awkward traverse" on the excellent Crown of Thorns.

Like. LMAO