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Most of my climbing buddies come from my gym and tend to climb a grade or two below me. They tend to be a little skittish about leading in general and prefer top roping in general. I have always given them a little shit for their TR dispositions and try to encourage them to pull the rope and lead if it is in their ability. However, I would often let them TR the route I was working if they asked. But recently I have grown weary of this practice because I think by the time you hit 5.12 you should be comfortable with leading... At what grade do you think people should not be routinely top roping? I am inclined to think you should be pulling the rope by the time you hit 5.11ish... Albeit understanding this is a generalization and doesn't apply to every situation...

The ONLY time you should start leading is AFTER you get a proper lead climbing instructor to show you how its done. Also if your reffering to gym TR, a 5.12 in the gym does not even come close to a 5.12 on sandstone. (my opinion but Most people I climb with say the same)

A lot of folks are asking this question latly. Leading is a whole diff ballgame, easy to fuck up and the consequences are the worst. BE SAFE!

i don't think you should pass on the chance to give your friends shit.

as you know, i suck, but i like climbing as much on top rope as leading, it just doesn't make that much difference to me. who cares? is it some safety thing?

DriskellHR wrote:The ONLY time you should start leading is AFTER you get a proper lead climbing instructor to show you how its done.

- I wonder what fraction of the climbing deaths over the last 20 years were due to improper lead climbing instruction.
- Even shell-shocked I can't get behind restrictive nature of this opinion. I think getting proper lead climbing instruction is a good idea, but 1) there is no substitute for experience and 2) most instructors are too freaked out about being sued to give proper lead climbing instruction.

There are very few guiding services that will actually allow a client to lead... thus, the "mock lead." That said, certain guides will allow long-term clients to actually lead pitches well within their ability if it is an individual outing and they know the client well... but that is the exception rather than the rule.

I think people should start leading on day two of climbing. I also think people should not go climbing unless they have made friends with an experienced climber who will teach them to lead. However you look at it, being rope gun is an inconvenience that is often overlooked and under appreciated by a newbie. I am not saying not to do it, but I think I am getting selfish in my old age and that honey moon period between me and a new climber is over quickly, and the sooner they become self sufficient, the better. Whatever the skill level, I trust my ability to belay and keep someone out of danger, even if I had to sacrifice my knee.

Before letting someone lead a route, ask yourself: "if they got up there and back-clipped or z-clipped, would they be calm/strong enough to fix it?"

If not, then they shouldn't be leading.

toad857 wrote:Before letting someone lead a route, ask yourself: "if they got up there and back-clipped or z-clipped, would they be calm/strong enough to fix it?" If not, then they shouldn't be leading.

Really? Backclipped? Z-clipped? Just stop and hang then go direct and fix it.

krampus wrote:I think people should start leading on day two of climbing. <snip> However you look at it, being rope gun is an inconvenience that is often overlooked and under appreciated by a newbie.

Right, someone has to lead. Gravity treats everyone's body similarly--so does impact. If you are not leading you are someone that a climber takes climbing, but you are not a climber. Everyone should access risk for themselves. My advice to someone who never wants to lead is either stay in the gym (maybe get out once in a while with your climbing bedfellow). Certainly stay away from climbing trips that involve consecutive days. Your unwillingness to learn will be a liability for others. Whatever, taken as a whole, climbing is safer with everyone accessing risk for themselves, being responsible for a knowledge level in accord with their abilities and climbing within their abilities.

krampus wrote:Whatever the skill level, I trust my ability to belay and keep someone out of danger, even if I had to sacrifice my knee.

When shit happens shit happens so fast one never knows what the hell one is sacrificing. You think you are sacrificing a knee and your inert keyster ends up hitting the ground.

clif wrote:as you know, i suck, but i like climbing as much on top rope as leading, it just doesn't make that much difference to me. who cares? is it some safety thing?

my favorite part of climbing is being gripped, sorting it, and going for it despite my discomfort and fear. toproping has none of these elements. i don't care what anyone else does on their rope, but for me toproping is - like climbing inside - just practice climbing.