Perma Draws, Blessing or Curse?

[climb2core]

Went to the Solarium the other day to get on SBF... When I got there there was only one other group climbing and apparently only one in the group was strong enough to be "climbing" there. As luck would have it he was on Super Best Friends... the route I had wanted to get on. So, I sat down an tried to wait patiently as he worked the route. He was repeatedly failing trying to do the low crux going from the 2nd to 3rd bolt. He was also trying to be "purest" and not to do the easier beta out far right as this was not how the FA did it. After about 15 min he was able to gain the ledge, which he sat and rested on for about another 15 min. Then he stood up made the clip on the ledge and struggled to make the next clip which is literally 2-3 ft higher and all jugs. After that he lowered, to the disappointment of his cheering entourage, who was telling him that he was not going to come down even if it took all day. His belayer even told me it was gonna be a long time after I declared my interest in the route and asked how many more people were in line (none...just him.)

So, it is apparent that he really had no business on that route and had chosen it solely because of the perma's on it and the low commitment level to trying it. As much as I love the convenience of perma's I am now wondering if it is really worth it???

[THB]

Exactly! This was exactly the point that I was trying to make in my earlier post in the thread about Rebolting the Mother Lode...

I think that careful thought needs to be put in before equipping a route with permadraws. Routes in the madness cave could stand to be equipped fully, whereas other routes might benefit from 1 or 2 permadraws for cleaning purposes, otherwise the routes don't need to be equipped at all...

[tbwilsonky]

i showed up at Phantasia the other day to do Twinkie and put some 'work' in on Phantasia. much to my uber-lazy chagrin the permas were gone. so i hung draws and cleaned them on toprope.

end of story.

[bcombs]

My boy TB just sent Twinkie.

[tbwilsonky]

i got this awesome training plan here: http://thegumbytwinkieexperiment.tripod.com/

i must have climbed my house and trees 1000 times; totally worth it.

[TradMike]

Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse

[climb2core]

Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse Curse

What are you really trying to say? Quit beating around the bush!!

[TradMike]

Perma draws are for the weak. Man up and place your own gear or climb something you are capable of climbing. Everyone knows it's not a true send if you did it with perma draws. Leave the gym back at the gym. If you can't hang a draw on a sport climb you definitely wouldn’t be able to climb the same grade in trad. You are fooling yourself if you think you can climb at that level. Perma draws are for the couch potato climbers that are too lazy to put in the effort to keep a natural setting looking as natural as possible. Along with tick marks, perma draws are the epitome of the disgracefulness in the new wave of climbers. They should never be seen on any public land. Do what you want with privately owned but keep it there. They leave a bad image of climbers and close to an atv and orv image.

[pigsteak]

tradmike..my guess is you are over 30? bitterness comes with age my friend.

[vertical1]

Thats right, take down all the chain steel permadraws so people can recycle their 10 yr old tattered sun bleached sharp edged aluminum draws to leave on projects in steep RRG climbs. Sounds much safer in my opinion.