RRC Archives

It's mid March and we are at three accidents so far...that I know of. Any stat minded people out there want to start a basic excel spreadsheet and keep track of accidents this year. Track things like, major contributing factors(ie bad belay), minor contributing factors(barking dogs and crying children), severity of injury, type of climb(sport of trad) experience level of climbers etc ,etc. I would love to look back at a year and see what is really going on. Maybe it is just the fact that there are more climbers thus more accident. Maybe crag/cliff traffic has reached an unsafe level and the sheer number of climbers at a given cliff/crag is a major contributing factor to accidents....for example.

I know, you ask, why don't you do it rhunt...well I guess I would but I suck at excel spreadsheet. Maybe if someone writes the spreadsheet for me I can add to it. But maybe a better idea is we keep a spreadsheet on this site and everyone can contribute to it.

I think its just becoming more known when people get hurt. I know lots of people who busted their ankles,knees and legs and it never was a big deal. Now somebody gets a boo boo and its a full on rescue effort. Where as before you'd just walk out and drive to Winchester.

no. Joey this is not it. The recent accident was criminal negligence. Back in the day belaying was a higher office than it is now.

Unless you intentionally drop someone I don't think you can call it criminal in the case of belayer error. It would be pretty easy to put responsibility back upon the climber. He chose to climb, know in inherent risks of sport. He failed to communicate with his belayer when starting to climb again. As Piggie pointed out, you need to let your belayer know what you are doing and when you are moving. This becomes even more important when you are not weighting the rope as the belayer can't feel when begin to climb again. Don't get me wrong... I think the belayer was totally negligent and should pay the guys bills, but I doubt you could consider it criminal.

climb2core wrote: . . . but I doubt you could consider it criminal.

Yes, Please do not take this literally. If he/she/it dropped me I would not feel that I could pursue the belayer in court. OK what about blatant negligence. When one says on belay, you are on freaking belay until 'off belay' is agreed on my both parties. That is the contract as I understand it.
It is a good idea for the climber to say 'climbing' or 'moving' or 'watch-me' after a respite, but the belayer needs to be vigilant. The climber's silence in no way mitigates the severity of the negligent belaying. The belayer in this case is in breach of contract.

Agreed on the belayer breaching contract and being negligent. Disagreed on the climber not being negligent. It is a breach of the contract to fail to communicate with your belayer. Climbing is ALWAYS a TEAM endeavor. This accident could have been avoided by EITHER party doing their job properly.

Over the past few years, I've seen increased incidence of 'on belay' not paying attention at all for a variety of reasons.
Check yourselves. It's a job of personal responsibility.

Climb2core: You are not thinking about this seriously. I would feel comfortable belaying somebody who does not have the ability to speak. Dropping someone 30 ft, 3/4 of the way up the route is ridiculous. Because the climber did not say 'simon says' does not transfer any blame to the climber. I am not sure if it gets more cut and dried than this.

Caribe is right, I usually rest my neck when my climber is resting. But the climber would never dever deck because he failed to tell me he was back on the wall, he may get short roped though

No, I DO get it. We just disagree about the climber accepting some responsibility. Communication doesn't have to be verbal, and if I was mute, I would find an alternative method of communicating with my belayer. This accident was preventable by the climber doing a better job. It was also preventable by the belayer doing a better job.

Once I had a belayer misfeed a rope backwards through a gri-gri. They caught me when I fell because they were using the brake hand properly. However, it was MY fault as much as it was their fault as I didn't visually inspect and confirm that it was ok. As a climber you need to do everything that can be reasonably done to ensure your own safety. I take personal ownership in the belaying process to facilitate a safe belay. I guess you just hope the guy is on the ball. To each their own.