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So, this has always bothered me about Muir Valley. Don’t get me wrong and this is not to be taken as a insult, just a friendly question. I love climbing at Muir and I think the Webers have been more then generous with their land and the climbing is GREAT.

The problem is the name “Muir Valley”. Why name the valley Muir Valley? From http://www.muirvalley.com, “We chose the name, "Muir Valley", to honor the memory of a great American. John Muir is revered as the "Father of the National Parks." His reputation as a conservationist has overshadowed his achievements as a rock climber.”

They are right that John Muir was a great climber for his time. He did many 1st ascents in the Sierra Nevada and many other areas. So, the problem is, is that John Muir was not a conservationist, but a preservationist.

A conservationist believes in, the wise and careful use of resources so they continue to be available for present and future needs (Jenson, R. & Guthrie, S., (2006), Outdoor Recreation in America).

Preservationist (Muir) believes in, the protection of resources in their natural or present state; generally involves restriction of development or consumption human uses (Jenson, R. & Guthrie, S., (2006), Outdoor Recreation in America).

I consider John Muir as one of my heroes, but as a rock climber I have to be in favor of conservation, because I want to use the land, but also protect it for future generations to enjoy.

The Webers also believe in conservation (thank god, because if they didn’t we would not be climbing there), so why did they name their valley after the leading preservationist (which they are obviously not) in America?

I think a better name for the valley would be Pinchot Valley. Gifford Pinchot, was a national leader in the conservation movement. Pinchot was the first head of the United States Forest Service and a leading spokesman for the sustainable use of natural resources for the benefit of the people. His views eventually clashed with Muir and highlighted two diverging views of the use of the country's natural resources. Muir valued nature for its spiritual and transcendental qualities. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Muir) Muir felt that the land should be set aside and be protected from man.

The Webers are managing their land as conservationist, NOT preservation like John Muir believed in.

This has always bothered me, not really a big deal, more kind of ironic, but that could just be because I have studied land management for way to long…

With all do repect, (naming pinchot=:)).........but who cares?.....and why should we question someone elses intentions, specially with regards to lables....

The map is not the territory, the name is not the property, who really cares what they name their land that they enable us to enjoy......do we care what they name their kid, their cat, dog, fish, third rock from the seventh hosta on the north side of the house?

Is it really that specific or incrementally improtant..?...I think you could have pm'd them and got a good answer without bringing it to a public discussion. (invoking my boredom)

I have done worse, ....myself.....maybe?

anyway....are you............ynp1, or..........."Why not pee one" or..........ynp666, or....joe finney 333, please inform me because this is important!

I assume you are a biological unit, seperate, yet unfortunately tied to a specific label that does not define your entity. Like many of us..... we like to lable ourselves under a whims of fashion.

Hello, I am spoonman, or gm, or five or 25 other lables....some I accept?

GM

yeah, it should've been named "awesomeland"

ynp1 Yosimite National Park (one) not a hard one

now "spoonman" is a person who cooks the heroin. classically with a spoon and a candle. To somewhat sterilize and mix the heroin with water. Thats what a "spoonman" is (is by the definition if is, not the new definition of is, which is suspect and open to interpretation.)

I think your knee jerk reaction to his questioning the Webbers decision is more along the lines of the scene in the "Wizard of Oz".

I am the great and powerful OZ! Who are you to question me!

The Webbers are prone to get on here and "defend" themselves and to threaten to sue and to shut down climbing at muir. So i think your defence of a percieved slight, even of the slightest slight. Is disingenous at best and "chickenshit" at worst.


proceed with your questions Matt...

Personally I think the entire state is misnamed. I mean mixing an Indian name with Simon Kenton's name when Daniel Boone was so much of a player - we should have been named Boontucky.. But that's how it goes.

We could rename it Pigsteak Place.

Then we all win, and are all happy.

Danny Boone got screwed at everything he did and ended up in Missouri.
Chris Columbus got the shaft too.

pigsteak wrote:We could rename it Pigsteak Place.

Then we all win, and are all happy.

How about Hog Heaven?

That'll work..I meant to say Pigsteak Palace anyway.

Hey ypn1, you are totally right about Muir being technically a "preservationist" more than a "conservationist," and I think that you've hit on one of the things that a lot of climbers don't like to talk about: we think of ourselves as preservationists, but as our numbers increase and as our resources are increasingly commodified, we are behaving more like conservationists.

That said, I think you're oversimplifying this Muir/Pinchot thing a bit much. Pinchot was all about a utilitarian "greatest good for the greatest number for the longest time." Furthermore, he never anticipated recreation as an economic resource on par with logging, water development, mining, grazing, etc. Pinchot would approve of Muir Valley as a carefully regulated timber area, or perhaps a publicly-owned dam and reservoir. But yeah, Muir would not approve of the manicured trails, bolts, signs, etc.

Environmental studies programs stress the whole Muir=preservation Pinchot-conservation a bit much, I think. The MODERN break between the two philosophies, which threw mass recreation into the mix, only occurred maybe beginning in 1958 with the establishment of the Outdoor Recreation Resources Review Commission, and crested with the 1964 Wilderness Act.

Naming it "Udall Valley" after the US Secretary of the Interior in the 1960s would probably be the closest to the spirit of modern conservation.