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I've been dwelling on the lack of financial support for Muir Valley and other areas. The simple answer is that climbers suck, that climbers are all takers, but the issues is not nearly this cut and dried.

The age distribution for financial contributions in general looks like the following, actual numbers taken from a specific example: http://www.thecalgaryfoundation.org/doc ... Canada.pdf
0 to 24 years: $590
25 to 34 years: $1,160
35 to 44 years: $1,840
45 to 54 years: $3,310
55 to 64 years: $3,760
age > 64 years: $3,980
total: $594,100
total number of individuals donating: 220,010.

Hopefully it is apparent what the challenge is for the climbing community: most climbers are in the first category. The usual financial challenges in the first category are:
1) The individual is usually in school (should be) and penniless (hopefully not).
2) Often Mom and Dad still buy stuff, if these people are not paying for the bare necessities they are certainly not going to be giving $ away to any organizations.

These two factors depress contributions from young people quadratically instead of linearly. The preponderance of young-climbers in the climber age distribution depresses the financial contributions from the climber population further.

When I was 24, I was so tight your could not pull a nail out of my pooper with 6-wheel tractor in low-gear on the pavement. Money was hemorrhaging out of every pore and was only trickling in on loans and on a graduate student salary. Finances were always BLEAK!

I can't remember what age I was when I made a contribution that supported a community-something or other, but I wish I could remember . . . I was not in the 0-24 year age category.

Basically the climbing community can not afford attitude 2. Dirt poor is one thing, but the climbing community has to be more responsible at a younger age. More younger people have to shoulder the burden or access will fade. If more people who are making less give a little, the community can protect access.

I think the thing to do is to pay something every time you climb. Put it in a piggy bank. Make a promise to pay at a certain level splitting funds to specific organizations like the access fund, RRGCC and Muir. Even when you visit other areas (non-home crag areas) that have access issues and governing bodies, factor this into the equation. Many issues would fade if this mode of operation were part of the culture.

I don't think I am solving any problems here. On some level this post is a general effort toward absolution of the climbing community. On another level see this as a stentorian call to reappraise at the individual and the group level.

I am not an accountant or anything, but I have no idea where you come up with $590,000 over 200,000 contributors, whihc is like $2.70 per person yet your breakdown is in the hundreds...help.


secondly, the "poor college student" is a myth..it is all in priorities. and smoking pot, drinking beer and climbing for free are higher on the list than charity. how else does dope flow so freely, and bars populate every corner?

Maybe we should ban all young climbers to indoor clibing until they can pay.

Or a couple fo better ideas would be to take away all valley access atMuir so the roads do not get used as much. I know plenty of chumps with valley passes that abuse it..ie...put very little into Muir but use the pass as their Valet service....

secondly, since it has been proven year after year after year that climbers will not donate, then control the crowds. limit the parking lot to ten cars maximum, and tow all illegal parking. it really is that simple. sorry for pointing out the obvious.

Torrent went private and it's still doing fine.

If the business model is failing, change it. People would still come to Muir if there were a fee, and it might help to bring visitors to a manageable level. And I wouldn't decry the Webers if they did it either. It's their land and if they feel like the community isn't doing their part, I support whatever actions they decide on. We will have brought it on ourselves.

Couldn't Friends of Muir Valley own the parking lot and charge parking? No liability issues since there is no climbing in the parking lot. Tow everyone who parks illegally.

most of the know-it-all climber hippy college types i know tell you this at the end of a climbing day when it's time for them to help with gas money "dude here's a peice of pizza ...that's my gas money" lol one of the reasons I dont come down as much. Spoiled lil rich - fukkers it's all about them lol

walking through the Solarium sunday early afternoon oct. 10 i received a charitable donation of 4 bong hits from the assorted college age looking crowd.

clif wrote:walking through the Solarium sunday early afternoon oct. 10 i received a charitable donation of 4 bong hits from the assorted college age looking crowd.

The first time I ever went outside (which was the second ot third time I had ever climbed in or outside a gym) I saw two dudes splitting a sixer of sixteen oz. budweisers and hitting a little sneak-a-toke pipe.

I fall into the "0-24" category. I am not the richest person I know, but I give as I have free funds. I've bought all my gear myself, and am working third shift at UPS in Louisville to pay for school. Mom and Dad give me no support for any of this, school OR climbing. What I do have is time. Aside from working 2 jobs, I volunteer with FoMV and the Coalition as much as possible. I worked 2 shifts at Rocktoberfest, am starting to attend Coalition meetings, and am at Muir most weekends as well, as a steward. I can't afford to throw down the big bucks like Dr. Bob or Rick and Liz, so I give my time. I know I'm in the minority, and it blows. Access isn't a right, it's a privilege.

I know this thread is about (the lack of) financial donations, but let's remember that if people donated in others ways, like time and labor, the need for financial donations would likely be lower. For example, relatively easy regular maintenance of something is often cheaper than fixing it all at once after it breaks.