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I have an honest question for everyone. I'll give you some back ground as well.

I'm a climber who was introduced to climbing in the gym, and so was my wife, but we've been wanting to climb more outside. We arent exceptionally strong climbers but both pretty capable.

The first time we went climbing together at the Red by ourselves was a few weeks ago, this was probably my 3rd time sport climbing outside the gym. We went to roadside and climbed the really easy routes past Ro and those classics. All of these routes are kind of low angle low rating stuff we felt was within our abilities. I wanted to hang the draws because in the past I hadn't, so we picked All Cows Eat gas, flaked the rope, counted the draws like 25 times and up I went.

In short i basically sexed the rock the whole way up. it was awful. banging my knees on shit, using bad feet next to great feet, feeling up every inch of the rock within arms reach. Even clipping the chains sucked ass 'cause the sun was at a high point and beaming right into my eyeballs...The only thing I didnt do horribly wrong was clipping from below. I made sure to get to every bolt because Jill is lighter than me and I've always been mindful of that.

I wouldnt say I was scared, or even challenged by the route. I've climbed harder routes, outside and in, but ultimately I felt like a left-handed kid using right-handed scissors. I suffered through the other neighboring routes doing the same damn shit. Ugh. It was a sight, I laugh now, but at the time it was abusive.

So what does it take to go from the gym to outside? When do you know you have the skills (belaying, cleaning, etc) and the ability to onsight to make climbing outside feel less like a rookie handjob? You guys poke-fun and tell crazy/serious stories about gumbies and accidents that probably involve people who are jumping on harder shit than I would consider at this point-- that concerns me. I dont want to be on that end of your discussions. Anyway, have at it.

good question, as long as safety is high priority for you then you won't likely end up on the gumby report. The bigest thing you need to progress from TR to the sharp end is balls, you gotta show your nuts, and let em hang out there, or, for you feminists, you gotta show your vulva ( though the latter usually requires more grace and eloquence)

yep. balls.

jayh wrote:In short i basically sexed the rock the whole way up. it was awful. banging my knees on shit, using bad feet next to great feet, feeling up every inch of the rock within arms reach.

• You discovered the holds were not taped and color-coded. Give it some time your learning curve will be steep.
• Sounds like you might be strong enough to get on some overhanging routes and take some intentional lead falls. Make sure your belaying technique is solid. If you are not sure about this, go out with someone (that other people trust) and have them evaluate your tech.

I like your style. I think you have the right mindset for climbing and being safe.

So here is my advice... It just takes time, practice practice practice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI

I think it is your choice of routes. I feel like that on those crappy climbs even when I am in shape redpointing 5.12's. Go to Muir Valley and do some quality moderates. Or, spend a day on Sunshine and Moonbeam.

A lot of it is about confidence. But real (not ignorant arrogant) confidence comes from success. The first time I went out leading I did nearly the same thing. I lead and cleaned Danger Mouse (5.8) for our first route and I was scared crapless. So we took a big break to work up the nerve to get on the next route (my buddy actually lead it). So it was my job to clean Don't Feed The Triceratops. I was so scared to clean another route I actually had the guy not belaying me (3 of us there, none of us with prior lead experience outside) scramble up the gully ramp that leads up to the ledge that is beside the anchors so he could hold my hand as I reached around the ledge to pull my gear off. (What a friggin jumbled sentence).
Anyway, I walked off the route without actually cleaning and being lowered.
I got back out there though. I started making myself take small lead falls (from safe heights). I started going with experienced guys that showed me good technique. I started forcing myself to do redpoints. (I still wuss out sometimes, everyone does).

I measured my successes by what I did outside of the gym. I built my confidence outside of the gym and not in it.

Also I never bought a gri-gri until this year. So my belay technique was not allowed to be sloppy, and not many of my original partners had gri-gris either so they same went for them. In that way there was a fear incentive to do things right. To do things the safe way.

With time you will get better and have a better lead head on you.

Sunshine and Moonbeam? Did you want the guy to have a good day outside or to force him to quit climbing?

Provided that you are not a troll, most of what everyone has said is spot on. Take your time. There is a lifetime of rock at the Red, and then some. Some skills that you won't likely develop in the gym but will need outside:

• - Cleaning (there are tricks to cleaning overhanging routes)
  - Rappelling and/or Lowering (when to do each or, just lower all the time, different debate)
  - Assessing ground fall potential (both while climbing and on belay)
  - Assessing ledge fall potential (both while climbing and on belay. This sort of goes away as you start to climb steeper routes)
  - Stick clip trickery
  - Inspecting permanent gear before you clip into it (see the many threads on sharp biners lately)
  - I'm sure there is countless other things

Hire a guide (I suggest RRO) or find someone / another group to work with, or ask on here, you might get an honest answer between the lines.

Use your own judgment. Do not let anyone talk you into doing something you are not 100% comfortable with. This includes route selection! Have a good time and be safe.

whatahutch wrote:I was so scared to clean another route I actually had the guy not belaying me scramble up the gully ramp that leads up to the ledge that is beside the anchors so he could hold my hand as I reached around the ledge to pull my gear off.

There is all kinds of comedy in there, except it is an all too familiar situation. My first "climbing" trip a friend from work took me to Pistol Ridge. I had only ever been backpacking in the Red. We scrambled up to the ledge to hang a TR because none of us could lead. So you were actually better off than we were, you actually hung the rope!

The next Sunday I lead (for lack of a better term) It's a Wonderful Life up in the front. So, so scary. The next day at work my buddy (who took us on the first trip) tells me there are gyms where you can go and practice climbing. That blew my mind! First, there were bolted climbs in the woods and now a place to practice! I was hooked after that.

Thanks.

I'm not trolling here. Pretty serious about it. My first outdoor lead was last year, To Defy Laws Of Tradition at Military wall. It was fine, I hurt my finger which is another story in-of-itself. The route just flowed...could have been the cocaine highway running right down the bolts, but who knows . I sent it without issue, but the draws where hung and the more experienced climbers we went with made the whole situation feel different.

I would have rather done Moonbeam or Sunshine, we walked over to them last year and the looked really nice. We've been climbing at Climb Time and Rock Quest for a long time so the gentle overhanging stuff just seems so much more calm.

The hard thing has just been the onsight and the comfort. In the gym onsighting the 10+, even hopping on juggier 11- on lead feels comfortable. As soon as we got outside (alone) we were just filled with doubt I guess. It has to start somewhere, good to hear some of you guys started the similarly.

Thanks again, guys. We plan on going down again over the weekend of 10/23-10/24 to have some more fun, get some more busted knees and spider bites.