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Open to your thoughts developers... I'll lay out a scenario.

Let's say someone has started developing a wall and put in work cutting a trail, clearing the base of the wall, cutting down trees, etc. There's several lines newly established (a few months old), some complete and some closed width draws and ropeshanging. There's a recently set jug line to an adjacent section of wall down the cliff that also has the some trail and base maintenance done.

One way or another, you find yourself at said wall. Would it be bad form to jug up and start bolting lines right there? Do you attempt to find out who's already been working there first and has set up the jug line and talk to them first? Do you look at other parts of the cliff line for routes?

Thanks.

der uber wrote: One way or another, you find yourself at said wall. Would it be bad form to jug up and start bolting lines right there? Do you attempt to find out who's already been working there first and has set up the jug line and talk to them first? Do you look at other parts of the cliff line for routes?

Yes, yes, and maybe (but still pretty poor style/inconsiderate without asking if the primary developers are cool with it first)

wow, is this even a legitamate question...poor form at best. Criminal, at least in a ethical sense.

Andrew, we're in trouble, buddy.

Andrew and Brad, as long as I have known you, you have always communicated with the others developing at a crag you are intersted in. At least that has been my recent experience. I wouldn't think this scenario would include you... I think this scenario is of a different origin.

but to answer the question, I would think this to be very poor form. In fact I have been in this situation many times and have either contacted the developer or just put the lines on the back burner for future dates when I feel up to working with the developers or development at the wall has stopped and is fair game.

I would think this scenario above is inconsiderate to say the least.

kafish2 wrote:Andrew and Brad, as long as I have known you, you have always communicated with the others developing at a crag you are intersted in. At least that has been my recent experience. I wouldn't think this scenario would include you... I think this scenario is of a different origin.

I was mostly kidding, but yeah, we always work with the people already developing to get permission and verify approval from the land manager.

In response to the question, I'm mostly surprised they jugged a line of unknown origin . Nothing creates pucker like jugging a line that a rat might have used to build up her nest.

Wow! I couldn't imagine someone actually having the balls to pull this off. If so, I would say their lines, red tags and all, would be fair game; considering they took the same approach to your fixed lines and such. I am of the opinion that the land and cliffs belong to the community and everyone should be welcome, but that's like someone taking a shit on an easement that buts up to your property and them telling you it's not your yard.

I think brad was joking.

But in all honesty, I have been in this situation many times. I would be surprised that anyone exploring and finding new cliffs, that are in the process of being developed, doesn't know the people doing development. Brad and I found a cliff this spring like this and we instantly knew who was developing it based on the ropes that were hanging. In my experience I have always just asked the people developing if I could help and it has always been cool, but you never know they may say no.

In reality we should all be asking The Snyd, John, and Bryan McCray for permission because they have already found every inch of cliff that exists.

You will know when you find my secret routes, they will be the crappy ones with long reaches.

How far down the wall from the existing routes would be considered off limits? Who's the one to approve if development should be allowed by others? What if the cliff already had some old Brian McCray routes (lots of cliffs around here) and was "re-discovered" by someone else who then starts bolting. Should everyone contact Brian or does the first person to bolt after him gain the entitlement to approve/disapprove?