Perma-Draws!!!!

[THB]

So, I've been noticing perma-draws getting put up in the gorge (mercy, table, twinkie, way up yonder, etc...) Thanks to those that have been equipping routes with this gear! Also, I know that a select few have been sprinkling steel biners on routes that get a lot of traffic (chainsaw, other undertow routes, etc...) Thanks to those folks as well!

I wanted to poll the RRG climbing community to see which routes you all think should be the next in line to get equipped. But, if I created a poll with all of the routes that I'd like to see equipped, it would include a good majority of the classic 5.12 and up sport routes... so, it'd be a pointless poll...

In my own opinion, I'd like to equip Far From God and Belly of the Beast. Both pretty steep, super fun, and a pain to clean... But, what routes would you like to see equipped?

I'll be investing in some perma-draws... and before making a decision of where to place the draws, I figured I'd ask the community... because maybe someone will make a good point about a route that really deserves to be equipped.

Thanks!

[pawilkes]

Shannon said she was planning on equipping belly of the beast with steel perma draws soon.

[One-Fall]

Im placing another order this coming Friday for ClimbTech's PermaDraws. If you want in on it, please pm me for details.

lee

[toad857]

table has perma draws? this was not the case 1 week ago--are they new?

[dustonian]

my suggestions:

5.12 Wall at Torrent (sharp!)
Mosaic
Call Like a Bomb
Stella
The Verdict
Whatever else at the Lode with sharp draws (Convicted, Tuna, Harvest, Chainsaw etc?)

Thank you!!

[pigsteak]

not to be the downer, but someone please remind me again why we are fixing all these rtoutes with steel perma draws...my guess it is as much about "convenience" as it is about safety. it would be waaay safer to place your own draws, that way you know their condition.

personally, I see this as a bad precendent....why not just leave steel biners on the anchors to save the permanent hardware, and one steel perma draw mid route to aid in cleaning? why are we sport climbers so lazy? only VERY steep route (madness cave) "need" perma draws....everything else is because we are lazy.

again, someone please let me know why steel biners on the anchors are not suffcient? draws left over after a weekend shuld be considered free booty....maybe then all this manky crap would disappear.

fixing draws is just one more thing in the equation that can go wrong in a year of too many accidents already...just my opinion of course.

[rhunt]

+1 on pigsteaK's post! All this perma-draw stuff is just adding more yearly maintenance to routes that usually only need anchor attention every couple of years...if that. Just watch how fast those steal biners wear in one year and how badly the quick-links get grooved.

If you can clean a route and the final swing doesn't smash you into a tree then the route does not need perma-draws. Better yet, spend about 10 minutes figuring out all the other ways to clean routes without having to take the swing. Instead of stealing the 'leaver biner' you find midway up a route - stop and think about what it might be there for. Maybe next year I will do a rocktober fest clinic on all the creative ways a stick clip can get you out of anything.

Maybe we should bring back the pinkpoint standard. In many cases hanging the draws on redpoint is clearly harder - esp on pigsteak's routes

[One-Fall]

Kipp,

Hugh brought up the same point, and I do agree with both of you: safest option is your own draws. You know the wear they have endured. Your second point: are sport climbers lazy? I am. You are absolutely right. I have replaced worn gear on two routes that were making me nervous with the old gear. I did it so my crappy lead head can quit worrying about the draws AND so I wouldn't have to place draws and clean them everytime I try the routes.

I hope there is continued open dialog on this, because Im all about group consensus. Ill pump the brakes on putting anymore up for a bit.

lee

[allah]

I say if people want to leave Perma Draws up and spend that kind of money more power to em. The will last a lot longer than the regular draws that people leave up for super long time even after they send said project. If people feel those need work or replaced then let said person do so. Having perma's alows for more pitches during the days and saves energy for future tries on other routes. Thats kinda how I feel about it, but who knows im never right about anything according to my 3 degree wife

[the lurkist]

She's right about that!