Arizona

Post by **ynot** » Thu May 06, 2010 8:57 pm

anticlmber wrote:really, yu live in a world full of fears, fear of:
being shot, being jobless, being mugged, being passed over, being raped, being labled, being dropped, being injured, being pulled over, being told what to do, flying, of sharks, of the dark, being thrown in jail/prison, sitting next to a fat smelly person, failure, not being saved, being a bad parent, taken advantage of, and the list goes on and on.

you have no rights, we just have a looser enslavement that we feel makes us "free" and at the same time we have less than most others and more BS than the rest.

god bless this fucking mess

works out great for the insurance companies

Post by **Boonda** » Thu May 06, 2010 9:22 pm

Come here anti, let me give you a hug.

Post by **anticlmber** » Thu May 06, 2010 11:10 pm

fear of hugs, commitment, truth, lies, and all the stuff you haven't even begun to realize you should fear.

Post by **pigsteak** » Thu May 06, 2010 11:31 pm

I say let em all stay, but make em pay into fed taxes, social security and the rest if they use the infrastructure of the country. and fine the employers if they don't.

Post by **DriskellHR** » Fri May 07, 2010 12:54 am

pigsteak wrote:I say let em all stay, but make em pay into fed taxes, social security and the rest if they use the infrastructure of the country. and fine the employers if they don't.

I second that, I have kicked entire crews off my job site because the employees who were all "legal" when all in fact were illegal.

Post by **Clevis Hitch** » Fri May 07, 2010 4:03 am

I got friends who are illegal and I came to the conclusion that the system is set up to take advantage of the poor working class. Think about it...From antibellum to the present day there has always exhisted a way for undocumented or slaves to work for slave wages. Its big business in collusion with goverment to provide cheap labor so that we as Americans can compete on the world stage. The problem is that we've become so rich that even our poor enjoy a standard of living that is the envy of the rest of the world. Daily comforts that you'll find in any trailer in Kentucky. Color television, Refrigeration,hot and cold running water,flush toilet and on demand lighting not to mention public septic systems, side walks paved roads, street lights cops that don't shake you down. A goverment that we can hold their feet to the fire when wwe need to.
All this was built on the backs of the oppressed. Don't get me wrong I don't believe in this "cradle-to-the-grave" mentality of the socialists but I do believe in a fair shake.

The goverment has made it too hard to go through the legal system as a mexican or spanish speaking south American. In effect creating a permanent under class. The greedy Big-Ag businesses stand in line to hire undocumented (read;cheap/disposible) labor. No taxes taken out. No FICA payments. No workers comp so if they get hurt then they are S.O.L.

Post by **Xtant** » Fri May 07, 2010 4:31 am

Boonda wrote:I'm a big believer in doing things the legal way. I believe if you want to live in a country and reap the benefits then it's the responsible thing to do it right. America is an amazing country with endless opportunities. The problem with this bill, I feel, is the openess of the term "reasonable suspicion". The law requiring appropriate documentation has been around for awhile, this addition of law enforcement being able to approach ANY individual they deem suspcious is where things start to get waffley. It's not just people who are breaking the law that can be approached. It's any citizen/person/etc... I just worry that the whole pursuit of happiness aspect of our rights is starting to be overlooked. My ideal country isn't one where people are constanly living in fear.

that's not the law. That was never the law. Initially it talked about legal contact or something. Basically meant if they were breaking the law in some way. If law enforcement was talking to you about a law that you broke, they could ask to see your visa.

The amendment that was passed clarified that even further.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd think if you were off climbing in Britain and you got pulled over for a DUI on the way to climb that they might ask to see your passport.

This law is no different.

Post by **Boonda** » Fri May 07, 2010 7:11 pm

What do you mean that was never the law Xtant? The law initially allowed officers to approach anyone they had suspicion of, whether they were breaking the law or not. That's why they had to go through the amending process, and now they specified that officers can only ask for paper work if the accused was committing a crime.

The unsure part now is it allowable only when the person is breaking the law (traffic offenses, robbery, etc...) or whenever police are called to a scene (loud parties).

Post by **Xtant** » Fri May 07, 2010 7:46 pm

The original law they passed said a cop could ask for your documents if they had "lawful contact" with that person. That was meaning a traffic stop, an arrest, called for a disturbance. All those things cops do. If there was no probable cause for another offense, then there would not be "lawful contact."

Critics were worried that was too vague so the amendment actually defined lawful contact.

The amendment changed nothing about the original. It just spelled out more details to shut critics up...

Have you read the bill or are you merely spitting up talking points you've heard critics discussing?

The original bill: http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/files/sb1070s.pdf

It never said reasonable suspicion of being an alien was the probable cause.

Post by **Clevis Hitch** » Fri May 07, 2010 7:54 pm

I saw this video of these cops chasing a van. The van wrecked and like thirty people jumped out and scattered. From what I understand about it. If Immigration wasn't there when the obvious illegals were caught then the officers couldn't make an obvious arrest of illegals.