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Lets lose the vitriol and just give two basic options. I don't think we should call peoples motives into question, we all have the same goal which is to climb. Lets lose the name calling and the accusations. Lets try to look at it through other peoples eyes.

Lets say you're from Kansas, coming off of your sad defeat in NCAA play and you're a girl. Rather than drown your sorrows with corn likker. You decide to take up a group of strange kids offer to go 'bluff scaling' in a strange land called the Gorge. You have heard that they have actual hills there and you want to maybe throw yourself off of one because of the tragic loss of your team to a ninth ranked bunch of lucky wanna-be's.

After driving forever you get to a campground and park in the parking lot of a pizza joint and set up your tent. That night you set around a campfire getiing hit on by hairy smelly guys drinking beer and talking in a strange dialect. Using words like send,crimp,flail,belay. Buncha weird kids(one of them actually smelled your seat!). After having to dodge and weave to your tent. All the while losing would be lovers along the way. Next morning you get up, eat breakfast, brush your teeth and are informed that you are going to a place called the crossroads. A place for gumbys, whatever that is. After driving deep into the woods you park in a dirt lot and everybody gets their gear out and starts hiking. You are in a group of seven. As you cross the creek you see a gate, as you aproach the gate you see a sign. You pause and glance at the sign. It says something about needing your money to keep this place open. There is a donation box. You've got a fiver in your pocket. So what happens next?

I doubt everyone passing through will donate, but some may on the spot and some may think about it for a while and donate more money online at a later date, in the end, I bet it will make more money that it cost the coalition

From my observations, a first-time gumby climber in this scenario will never put money into the donation box.

However, if this girl gets hooked on climbing, starts coming regularly and learns the background/history, the chances will increase that she will donate money. Though I would not expect it to be every time she comes through the gate, or even most of the times that she comes through the gate.

Meanwhile there is a dude waiting in the weeds with a screwdriver ready to pry the lid open. So in the end we all lose. The girl lost her fiver. Her team lost, no rock chalk jayhawk this year. RRGCC lost because the dude in the weeds stole the fiver. The group this girl is with lost because they have to scrape her up off the base of Severn Bore after she somehow finds her way to the top and leaps off. Humanity's loss is the girl, who could have done something with her life but invested to much time in college hoops. Man, what a day.

Would you encourage people to leave money in an unattended box in the souther region of the Gorge?

Clevis Hitch wrote:Lets lose the vitriol and just give two basic options. I don't think we should call peoples motives into question, we all have the same goal which is to climb. Lets lose the name calling and the accusations. Lets try to look at it through other peoples eyes.

Thank you Clevis. That is what this is really all about. It is just a marketing experiment. If it works, then great. If it doesn't, we'll move on. Sorry if some BOD members got out of control and went off on you. I was away from the bat cave

go universtity of northern iowa!

There should be another poll option - "I donate already regardless of the gate."

Are we really putting a donation box there? Terrible idea, it will be nothing more than a theft target. If people don't want to go online and donate there is attended box at Miguels and at climbing gyms.

Now let's determine the probability that this scenerio is likely. Most of the "group of kids" I run into are on a team and their parents have money. They can drop 50-100 easily on a comp and even more to get their kids out of the house for a month.

And often those leaders are people you hope are teaching them ethics and safety. They're also getting paid for their efforts.

Sorry ... my job entails determining actual users and how they respond to information. Great attempt, but it's a little off from reality.

And for those KS people still whining over their loss: "Come down from your cross, take the wood and build a bridge and move on with it!"

I experienced a couple of different kinds of these in New Zealand.

Donation Box A was on a track on private property and it required a donation (but not really) to hike the track, to cover maintenance. I think it was $2 NZD. Before I even hiked the track, and knowing full well I'd probably never do it again in my life, I easily put in $2. There wasn't even really much to maintaining this track as you climbed through sheep pastures covered with feces. The view at the top was worth $200 NZD though ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/truello/42 ... 2/sizes/l/ ).

Donation Box B was something as suggested above. A true donation, not required or expected. I still donated knowing I'd probably never be back to enjoy the fruits of my donation. I donated for the effort gone into putting the tracks there for me. I think it comes down to the person but I don't think anyone minds dropping a few bucks if it means getting to climb/tramp something truly free. Much better deal than a $9 movie.

These boxes were hard steel posts with a slot in the top and a burly locking mechanism on the bottom back, similar to what you see at the campsites in Joshua Tree. I think it would take a lot to break into, more worth than what's inside, especially if emptied regularly.

If it's not there, nobody's going to donate. If it is there, some will.