So here I am watching climbing videos, and it hits me. Is there any difference between someone skipping a clip in the crux and someone preclipping , say, the first 3-4 draws on a route? Both are done because the moves are apparently too hard to make and still clip. Come to think of it, isn't extending a draw to make a clip 'easier" also another form of dumbing down a route? All are forms of bringing the route down to our level, instead of climbing it as the FA envisioned?
Guess this came up with the hammering of bolts on 50 words. Someone didn't like the new version...but, if you hang long draws so you can clip off the "better" holds, aren't you also cheating yourself of the full experience?
Anyone have a personal "hard line" of what is not acceptable when sending? here is my list.
you only clip one anchor, no send.
you pre clip more than the first bolt, no send.
you hang/use any draw longer than the standard issue (ie...no extended, doubled up draws, no velcroed to the wall draws, no 3 foot webbing draws, etc), no send.
you climb a RRG route in under 40 degrees temp, no send.
you use hand warmers, no send.
you bring a thermos or propane heater to the crag, no send.
all are cheating, and take away from the struggle and joy. just because you send your hardest route in these cool temps, be honest with yourself. make sure to put an asterik by your send.
"yeah, I climbed this 13a with the first three draws clipped, and I skipped the high crux bolt. I also warmed my core with coffee, had hand warmers taped to my wrists, heated wee little rocks and put them in my chalk bag, had my buddy hang and extend 4 draws, and I took the victory whip because I was too pumped to finish....all in zero humidity, sunny and 35 degrees."
shame on you all for spraying with this lowly behavior.
Any Difference?
Any Difference?
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
Dude, It's all kind of arbitrary isn't it? I mean we could walk around to the top of said 13 and claim we got to the top, right?
Logically speaking this "sport" of ours is stupid. We work hard and train indoors near our homes, drive somewhere (usually 1 or more hours away), only to go 90-100% of the way up some rock the hard way, to walk back out and drive home.
All this arguing about semantics is just to boost one's ego anyway.
Relax and have a beer at the strip club with me and Shamis.
Logically speaking this "sport" of ours is stupid. We work hard and train indoors near our homes, drive somewhere (usually 1 or more hours away), only to go 90-100% of the way up some rock the hard way, to walk back out and drive home.
All this arguing about semantics is just to boost one's ego anyway.
Relax and have a beer at the strip club with me and Shamis.
"Dying?" Man, that's the last thing I want to do. - overheard
How often is the crux between the first bolt and the ground? And how often is that crux so hard that you can't clip, specifically the first bolt, from said crux holds? People stick clip for a bunch of reasons (mostly due to laziness and lack of committment) but this ain't one of em'.Both are done because the moves are apparently too hard to make and still clip.
the way I see it kek-san, is that all sports have rules of conduct. football, baseball, basketball, cycling, weight lifting, running, etc...in order to claim something, one must be "in bounds" of the governing rules.
long draws and cool temps are not within the bounds of the rules. sending in cool temps is like a wind aided 100 yard dash. fun to run fast with the wind pushing you, but you still ain't Mr. Lightening Bolt.
so if I see any more extended draws with a biner or two in the middle, I am cleaning up these routes by putting the draws back to a single nylon strand.
doing the chump clip with a 2 foot draw is supremely lame. not as lame as top roping, but dang close.
long draws and cool temps are not within the bounds of the rules. sending in cool temps is like a wind aided 100 yard dash. fun to run fast with the wind pushing you, but you still ain't Mr. Lightening Bolt.
so if I see any more extended draws with a biner or two in the middle, I am cleaning up these routes by putting the draws back to a single nylon strand.
doing the chump clip with a 2 foot draw is supremely lame. not as lame as top roping, but dang close.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
thanks for having my back kramp....I am leading the charge to take back our sport. righteous indignation has a place when the bastardization of our beloved past time is getting thrown in the dumper by folks who have no perspective of historical norms.krampus wrote:hell no, you are absolutely right piggy, no send unless its done right. anyone who ever makes the rout easier is weak sauce....period....
sport climbing didn't start with you, o wienie number chaser. harken back to the days of pure movement and physicality.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
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woodchuck008
- Posts: 605
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:23 pm
Kek-san says it. There's only sport fun in 'sport' climbing. Set what rules you want. Pick a so called 'line' of obscurity, and then don't even top out.
How about the higher up you go, the longer the draws can be, so you can actually clip one hanging maybe 15 ft. down from where the crux actually is. Makes it a 'toprope' ascent I say. But hey, it's all just a make believe game unless you do pure on-sight trad'.
How about the higher up you go, the longer the draws can be, so you can actually clip one hanging maybe 15 ft. down from where the crux actually is. Makes it a 'toprope' ascent I say. But hey, it's all just a make believe game unless you do pure on-sight trad'.