RRC Archives

I'm trying to convince myself that the bowline is a safe knot to tie. Some people swear it isn't, others swear that it is safe.
I still tie the figure 8 knot, and I really want to switch to the bowline, but I haven't yet. I know a lot of advanced sport climbers tie the bowline everyday and live to tell about it.
So....if you tie the bowline, do you tie a single or a double? What are the pros/cons to each? And you obviously tie a backup...anything else?
Mostly, if I wouldn't ever fall, this wouldn't be a problem...haha


Also, someone told me to use the Alpine Butterfly. They said it's just as safe as the Figure 8, but easier to untie after taking a whipper (like a bowline).

Any thoughts?

Don't tie a bowline. It may be just as strong as a figure-eight, but less people know the knot so your belayer is less likely to catch your mistake if you mess it up. Also it is less robust than a figure-eight in that it's strength is completely compromised if you misthread it, whereas a figure-eight has a chance of still being strong. It is human error that is always the problem, not the knot itself. I recommend using the knot that is more likely to prevent human error, and to not be disastrous if there is human error.

overhand not is best.

I'm with Schwaq on this one. bowline is too easy to mess up and not that many would know it was wrong.

I use a double bowline finished with jack (or sometimes call yosemite) variation.
use with caution.

big fan of the triple bowline with a double stroganov sputnick follow through. it may take an hour to tie and use up half of the rope, but at least its not a figure eight.

Just use the 8 for christ's sake.

schwag...you're wrong in that the bowline is bout 5-10% weaker than an 8. you are right in that if you tie it wrong it is completely compromised. with the exception of the "cowboy bowline" , however, most of the ways you can screw up a bowline cause it to never form into a knot to begin with so the likelyhood of tying it wrong is next to none. as for it being weaker the margin of strength in the rope is so great that this is not a factor. i, also, have never seen a belayer catch an improperly tied knot that a climber was about to climb on outside of guide/client scenario.

the risk in a bowline is that it isn't a cinch knot and the tail can work its way back through the knot if not backed up properly. avoid tying them in a new (esp dry treated), stiff, slick ropes. outside of that you're good to go

i don't think there has been a documented case of a properly tied bowline failing and i've looked around for one

i tie different knots for different situations. about 90% of the time it's a double bowline backed up with a fishermans knot on the strand leading back into my harness

I found this article on rope strength vs. the knot used. Scroll down until you come to the dynamic climbing rope data. It looks like good scientific data.

http://www.caves.org/section/vertical/n ... trope.html

According to this we should all be using the double fisherman

Bowline is one of the knots tested and I'm assuming this means a Single Bowline as the word double is used in describing some of the other knots. If my math is correct, and it may (k)not be, a double bowline would be stronger than a single bowline knot

Naught, naught, carry the naught - Jethro Bodine
Oooohhhh weeeee, listen to that boy cipher - Jed Clampet

I never had any problem with the main knot but I have had the fishermans come undone several times dragging it through squeeze chimneys.

Every knot has its time and place.

As for me, Double Windsor.