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pull his hair, scratch, rip some shirts off. titty fight!!!

anticlmber wrote:pull his hair, scratch, rip some shirts off. titty fight!!!

Mine are pretty firm these days...

I can see you are a man that like to have the last word...you can have it. I know when I am speaking to a young one...

Thats nice of you. Ha.

I just want good, honest discussions. People have a hard time with that....

I always saw the need for clipping both anchors for safety only, i.e for toproping, cleaning, etc...never for a valid send. I only clip 'em both for those reasons only.

And as far as a jug at the anchors making a route better....I don't think that makes much sense (sorry Kris, please don't write a song about me!). I know many great routes without a jug at the anchor, i.e. Orange Juice, Heart Shaped Box...

Just my two cents.

Pretty good argument so far. I can see both sides. When you clip one anchor and lower, what's next? You pulling the rope and leaving the draws for the next climber? If the second cleans on the way up he's on one anchor after the last bolt.

Artsay wrote: I know many great routes without a jug at the anchor, i.e. Orange Juice, Heart Shaped Box...

Wow those are great routes.

Orange Juice does end on a jug rail at the top of the cliff?

Heart Shaped Box does have a slightly odd setup. Most people have to climb to the "jug" past the anchors to clip them. I personally think it would have been a little better to force people to get to the top by having the anchors higher. But the current set up is safe and saves the rope some wear.

[quote="512OW"]
I feel the equipper should shoulder the responsibility of bolting an actual "line", complete with a natural stopping point.

Sometimes, a great line simply runs out of holds. The absence of a finishing jug is not a valid justification for leaving that line. You've often mentioned how arbitrary the rules of climbing are. Mostly I agree, but it doesn't get much more arbitrary than requiring a route to finish on a jug. But if that's what you want we can call Jeff and demand he bolt on a Metolius handlebar.

Artsay wrote:I always saw the need for clipping both anchors for safety only, i.e for toproping, cleaning, etc...never for a valid send. I only clip 'em both for those reasons only.

And as far as a jug at the anchors making a route better....I don't think that makes much sense (sorry Kris, please don't write a song about me!). I know many great routes without a jug at the anchor, i.e. Orange Juice, Heart Shaped Box...

Just my two cents.

Orange Juice and Heart Shaped Box both have jugs at the top...most people just choose to not use....

I ended up clipping the Heart Shaped Box anchors from a no hands stem with the anchors at my bellybutton level. Then one more move and I was on a giant jug.

Toy wrote:

512OW wrote: I feel the equipper should shoulder the responsibility of bolting an actual "line", complete with a natural stopping point.

Sometimes, a great line simply runs out of holds. The absence of a finishing jug is not a valid justification for leaving that line. You've often mentioned how arbitrary the rules of climbing are. Mostly I agree, but it doesn't get much more arbitrary than requiring a route to finish on a jug. But if that's what you want we can call Jeff and demand he bolt on a Metolius handlebar.

I agree totally with you. However, I always think that its a shame when a route with great movement has an odd ending. (Amarillo Sunset) I'll still climb those routes, but I feel they fall short of "great" status. No fault of the equipper, just how the chips fall...

I personally wouldn't bolt that route. I'm glad people do, but I couldn't justify that amount of hard work for a line that doesnt' really finish...