The Judge is in the house! (or the return of peer review)
-
Don McGlone
- Posts: 567
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:16 pm
-
redpointron
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:31 am
josh and i have been in complete agreement since the beginning...we will NOT be part of this mess.pigsteak wrote:...peer review it pretty easy..only problem is I see no one posting here who comes close to being a peer of Tackett....
...
And to Tackett, sorry man if I took this on alone. You lost your business, you coordinate (with Paul) for clothing for the poor, coordinate JATD, you allowed RocTrip and the ensuing mess to happen on your land, you bolt some killer lines, you pay mad money for permanent gear and replacing the crap the last generation left us, you also put up some crazy trad, and these fuckers repay with righteous indignation.
I, for one, refuse to stand by.
but let me be the first to apologize to matt. he (and amy) are as much the face of the red as anyone...i am sorry if our silence left you feeling alone in your stance. you are everything that is right about climbing.
i can handle being canonized as a poor developer, BUT never as a lackluster friend.
regards.
ron bateman
I have heard from morgain and charlie , both BOD members. I want to publically apologize for asking the BOD to "grow balls" on this issue. Their work and time are immense, and I was out of line to pull them into the debate in such a fashion.
to all BOD members, and charlie and morgain specifically, I am sorry.
to all BOD members, and charlie and morgain specifically, I am sorry.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
pigsteak, dude, I'm not sweating it at all. It's just a very dicey game setting guidelines on development, especially when it's an advocacy group setting the guidelines.
Last thing we want is someone saying, "Hell no, I don't support the RRGCC. They let this line go up and didn't let that one go up." "What the hell is the BOD doing? Don't they know the bolts on that route are crap. All the money they are pulling in you'd think they could replace some anchors around here."
Aside from that, yanking bolts and bolting choss are merely actions based on opinions. Best case scenario we get involved sitting the parties down to discuss and work it out themselves. I don't ever want the RRGCC to be anything more than a mediator when it comes to route development. We just want to keep the land open. The BOD babysits enough, and builds enough trails to not want to worry about bolt wars.
Bolting choss is why we have people like Tackett, Blake, Don, and Kipp around. One degree of separation is critical.
Last thing we want is someone saying, "Hell no, I don't support the RRGCC. They let this line go up and didn't let that one go up." "What the hell is the BOD doing? Don't they know the bolts on that route are crap. All the money they are pulling in you'd think they could replace some anchors around here."
Aside from that, yanking bolts and bolting choss are merely actions based on opinions. Best case scenario we get involved sitting the parties down to discuss and work it out themselves. I don't ever want the RRGCC to be anything more than a mediator when it comes to route development. We just want to keep the land open. The BOD babysits enough, and builds enough trails to not want to worry about bolt wars.
Bolting choss is why we have people like Tackett, Blake, Don, and Kipp around. One degree of separation is critical.
-
the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm
Wow! what a day in the life of the bbs. Sorry I missed it doing what I was supposed to be doing.
Well, I guess Judge Dread did what he/she hoped to- stir up shit. Too bad, b/c I think this is something worth discussing, if for no other reason than it makes me feel like I am still a rockclimber (when in fact I only climb on a bad plywood wall occasionally).
Well, IMO no one wants the BOD to do anything to oversee routes. You want another MV debacle? Seriously, people in the community, a disparate group of opinion needs to informally bring to bear constructive criticism on all things regarding route development.
And another, while stylistic differences are just that (I have almost took it upon myself to chop Pogue Ethics once upon a time, back when I was someone, as opposed to now being a never was. I am glad I didn't b/c most folks love that route. Guess I was wrong. Actually, no, it is a steaming pile. The standards have been going down for a long time.) ramble, ramble, but what I what to say is that the real issue is how enduring are routes? They all will have to be serviced one day.
Now, I stand rightly accused of being an old holier than thou fuck stick, but I can tell you, from my perspective of having bolted routes going back twenty years ago, that I do lay awake with concern about some kid getting on old routes.
Guys like Terry (my he smile down upon us from above with a smile of gentle mirth on his lips and a cold beer in his hand) and Tackett, Blake, team Suck et al don't come by just every day to do all of the route maintenance for us. There could come a time when we will all have moved on (naw, this group is way too in to climbing to every find anything else to do- myself included, and I have tried!), and all these bolts just sit there rusting away, time bombs waiting for some 18 year old kid to whip on them and fail. I think THAT is the argument for getting rid of bad routes. Prune out the bad ones and keep the ones folks do.
I have not climbed at Curbside, and frankly have not heard anything about the routes. But, Kip and Paul or whoever, if they truly to suck just go ahead and scavenge the gear.
gotta go.
the lurkist
Well, I guess Judge Dread did what he/she hoped to- stir up shit. Too bad, b/c I think this is something worth discussing, if for no other reason than it makes me feel like I am still a rockclimber (when in fact I only climb on a bad plywood wall occasionally).
Well, IMO no one wants the BOD to do anything to oversee routes. You want another MV debacle? Seriously, people in the community, a disparate group of opinion needs to informally bring to bear constructive criticism on all things regarding route development.
And another, while stylistic differences are just that (I have almost took it upon myself to chop Pogue Ethics once upon a time, back when I was someone, as opposed to now being a never was. I am glad I didn't b/c most folks love that route. Guess I was wrong. Actually, no, it is a steaming pile. The standards have been going down for a long time.) ramble, ramble, but what I what to say is that the real issue is how enduring are routes? They all will have to be serviced one day.
Now, I stand rightly accused of being an old holier than thou fuck stick, but I can tell you, from my perspective of having bolted routes going back twenty years ago, that I do lay awake with concern about some kid getting on old routes.
Guys like Terry (my he smile down upon us from above with a smile of gentle mirth on his lips and a cold beer in his hand) and Tackett, Blake, team Suck et al don't come by just every day to do all of the route maintenance for us. There could come a time when we will all have moved on (naw, this group is way too in to climbing to every find anything else to do- myself included, and I have tried!), and all these bolts just sit there rusting away, time bombs waiting for some 18 year old kid to whip on them and fail. I think THAT is the argument for getting rid of bad routes. Prune out the bad ones and keep the ones folks do.
I have not climbed at Curbside, and frankly have not heard anything about the routes. But, Kip and Paul or whoever, if they truly to suck just go ahead and scavenge the gear.
gotta go.
the lurkist
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie
Normie
i agree with a lot of people about this topic. lets talk about routes, shitty and good . you just gotta name them and be willing to talk about it civil and put your name behind your words. if a developer doesnt have tough enough skin to hear someone thinks the route sucks or could have been bolted a little different, they need to find a new hobby. i have bolted some routes that are not 5 star, hell maybe not 3 stars. i even have a few routes that i may wish i would not have sunk hardware into, but i did. but as far as craftmanship going into the route, i like to think i do a good, safe job. you may not like the moves or think it could be scrubbed every week or whatever along those lines but if i ever have a badly bolted route let me know.
http://www.redriveroutdoors.com
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress