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i tell you what, i had such a great time climbing with all the lovely ladies this weekend! it was worth getting away from my regular partners just to hang and support each other! it's all about fun...

First of all Kato, I want to thank you for challenging us. Addressing your doubts is definately reaffirming what I learned in the course. In Arno's course, he does not provide a magic pill to get rid of all your fears and make you the boldest of climbers. Certainly we all tried pressuring him into giving us this pill; however unfortunately it was to no avail.

One thing Arno said early in the course is: "do what you fear and your fears are sure to die". Some of us may have had a different perspective, and thought "do what you fear and you are sure to die" .

The course focused on taking reasonable risks that push you out of your comfort zone and gave us a method for maintaining a curious learning mind through the whole experience. We all know, it is gonna take practice applying it . . .but, he gave us a solid foundation to learn from. That is where our partners come in. Now they can help us build on that foundation.

"The course focused on taking reasonable risks that push you out of your comfort zone and gave us a method for maintaining a curious learning mind through the whole experience."
That is what is so cool about the WW. This comfort zone is ever-expanding. What is now outside of your comfort zone will become comfortable to you once you have pushed yourself through it. You never stop learning and growing by moving out of your comfort zone and into/through the risk, no matter what your level of climbing.

This blind trust thing is my whole point. You trust the person you;ve climbed with for years, this is the opposite of blind trust. This is trust built on many experiences, in situations where you really put your life in your partners hand.

This trust in Arno is more of a blind trust. Sure, you may have read his ads, talked to others who've taken his class. But don;t you know your regular partner better by orders of magnitude?

So before you reply, consider this: I'm not knocking Arno, or his system, and if you say it's beneficial, I have no problem with that. It just seems curious that of two people who try to talk you up a route, you listen to the one you know least. Why?

it's not about trusting your partner, it's about learning to trust yourself. your climbing partner can't do the moves for you...

kato wrote:It just seems curious that of two people who try to talk you up a route, you listen to the one you know least. Why?

It's not about Arno talking me up a route. It's about me, the person I know best (better than my partners), talking me up a route.

kato - From my example, I guess you could've viewed "her" boyfriends analogous to climbing partners. But from my point of view, the boyfriends were analogous to a bad fall, lack of knowledge, limiting abilities - mental or physical...anything that could take away from climbing freely. The woman in my example can't blame the men for teaching her how to love with doubt or fear. She can only blame herself for allowing that loss or change.

My partners are the reason I *am* climbing. If not for them, I wouldn't be the climber I am today. It's the fear that I've been swallowed by from a few bad trad experiences that has taught me how to lose the ability to climb freely when leading trad. I've *allowed* that fear to control my actions.

Arno has simply put into clear, concise words some key fundamentals on what it is to climb without inhibition, fear, and attention leaks...even when climbing something outside of one’s "comfort zone". If you or anyone else would've told me these things I would've listened just as attentively.

What’s really neat about my personal experience is that I climb sport pretty darn freely…with falls, aggressiveness, or whatever…whereas trad just freaked me out sometimes. Key word: sometimes. I didn’t know when or where, but when that time came and the panic button was pushed, it was all I could do to not lose it. And during those times, I didn’t get mad at Ray or anyone else…just at myself. But now, after learning Arno’s verbalized sequence of events of what it is to climb freely, I realize that’s how I climb when I’m clipping bolts. I never tried to put it to words before and even if I did I wouldn’t have been able to simplify it like he does. So now, all I’m doing is really what I already know how to do. It's an awareness. It sounds really strange but unless you take the course you’ll never know what the hell we’re talking about!

It worked this past Sunday, anyhow, on a difficult mental route for me. I'm hoping I'll continue to be able to use my new tools from now on but only time will tell...

Here’s Steve Petro’s testimonial:

"Old habits are hard to break. Too often, I have worried about the outcome rather that the process. But, after going through the "Way", I decided to focus on enjoying my climbing and not setting any expectations or goals. This is what I experienced. I redpointed Monkey Lip 5.13b on my second day. I got on the route about 6 years earlier, but the long walk killed my partner. And I couldn't find another. And that continued with a redpoint on Trench Warfare 5.13a (turning the lip and topping out), on my second effort, second day. Continuing with a greatly improved performance on The Shining 5.13c. Finally, with being able to do all the moves on The Hard Blues 5.14a, something I've never been able to do before. I 'm amazed this "Way" works (but deep down I knew it would)!"
- Steve Petro (graduate 06/99)

Hello Mia, Norma, Chester, Stephanie, Michelle, and yes Kato...
I read this thread with interest. It sounded like a lot of positive reinforcement until... Kato who voiced her (?) skepticism about paying for mental training instead of learning these skills from friends and/or boy/girl friend.

One thing I stated at the beginning of our class was to question everything I teach, to not just accept it "hook, line, and sinker." With this in mind I agree with Kato. It is important to question everything. However, to question and not investigate what the warrior's way is all about is limiting. Kato is holding onto a belief that paying someone who has studied something, as I have with mental training, is throwing money away. Would you rely on your friends to teach you about Calculus or Physics instead of going to college?

We are all talented and skilled in something and I've learned that I am more productive when I focus on what I'm skilled at and utilize others who are skilled at other things I'm not.

I welcome Kato's skepticism. I also welcome her to investigate the ww and see if she can really learn these skills from other climbers. I sincerely doubt she can. You know how much mental training there is for climbers in the climbing literature? About three chapters spread out in three different books and half of the material is wrong.

If I have a chance to learn from someone who has put tens of thousands of hours of study into something... I find it worthwhile.
By the way...I offer my training with a money back risk free guarantee.
Will you take me up on it Kato? arno

I have yet to hear of one dissatisfied climber!!!