I am sad about this whole thread.split topic, from Two Muir Routes closed
The Sanctuary at Muir Valley is officially closed until the person or persons who placed the graffiti on "Hoosier Boys" removes it.
Liz Weber
Liz Weber
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
The Weber's are doing a gracious thing. To follow a few rules and respect their land is little to ask for what they have provided to the climbing community. Spoonman, I hope you and T-Bone work out your differences. Both of you guys put up great lines.
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!
-Horatio
-Horatio
Saxman - I could be wrong but I think the "graffiti" was the name of the route (given by the FA) written in chalk, not paint. And these guys aren't morons for arguing...they're human.
I think it's sad that two once good friends could be at odds like this. I was recently in a rut with my best buddy and I felt sick to my stomach until we worked it out. Greg and Tim, in time I hope you're able to put pride aside and achnowledge the importance of your friendship as the most important issue. Sometimes friends hurt each other...but it's usually unintentional.
Don't forget...
It feels like the hardest thing in the world to say, "I'm sorry" but it heals most wounds. And "I'm sorry" doesn't mean that you necessarily did something wrong. It just means that you're sorry for doing something that hurt someone you care for.
Good luck...
I think it's sad that two once good friends could be at odds like this. I was recently in a rut with my best buddy and I felt sick to my stomach until we worked it out. Greg and Tim, in time I hope you're able to put pride aside and achnowledge the importance of your friendship as the most important issue. Sometimes friends hurt each other...but it's usually unintentional.
Don't forget...
It feels like the hardest thing in the world to say, "I'm sorry" but it heals most wounds. And "I'm sorry" doesn't mean that you necessarily did something wrong. It just means that you're sorry for doing something that hurt someone you care for.
Good luck...
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.
This post is in response to Ultra so I'd like apologize ahead of time if I offend anybody else...
Fuck it, it's not even worth it... nevermind. (I'll send a pm instead)
--Soccer Mom Jared
Fuck it, it's not even worth it... nevermind. (I'll send a pm instead)
--Soccer Mom Jared
"Those iron spikes you use have shortened the life expectancy of the Totem Pole by 50,000 years."
--A Navaho elder
--A Navaho elder
Okay I changed my mind... what the hell...
Hi Joe, you are probably going to dislike me even more after you read this message, but I really need to vent. Besides, I could care less how you feel about me anyway.
From one developer to another I already had respect for you because of your positive comments about new route activists and in particular what was going on in Muir Valley. I had heard a few good things about you (and a few negative comments) and I was actually going to send you a pm to invite you to come bolt some routes down in Muir Valley if you were ever in the area.
Now I feel like a fool. First of all, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but insulting Rick with viscious lies and slander (or technically libel) really crossed the line and was not cool. He is the most generous man that I have ever met and has done many great things by opening his PRIVATE land to the public. He has also kept the climbing community regularly updated and aware of what is going on in the valley through this website.
As far as Greg Martin goes... I want it to be known that I have always encouraged him to put up hard route down there. J.J. and Karla have done the same. His disagreements with Tim have nothing to do with the other developers. We certainly did not appreciate being called soccer moms, etc.
Just because I (and several of the others) have never redpointed a 5.13 doesn't mean that we are not qualified to bolt routes down there. I've put up more than 20 5.12 routes in Muir Valley. And I've redpointed quite a few others all over the country in the last 13-14 years. I'm sorry if that is not good enough for you and I need a more thorough resume before I can bolt.
Greg is definitely more capable and qualified than I am to put up hard routes (especially those in the 5.13 range), but that's no excuse for you to belittle the rest of the developers. For this reason I have actively encouraged many of the Red's strongest climbers to come down to Muir and bolt some harder climbs. I've sent countless pm's to quite a few people inviting them to check out the potential for harder routes. There is easily potential for 100+ routes at 5.12+ and harder.
As for your comments about Tim... he's been climbing at the Red for 25 years and has participated in sport and trad FA's at Military Wall, Left Flank, Purple Valley, Long Wall, Funk Rock City, Sky Bridge Ridge, Roadside Crag, Torrent Falls, and Muir Valley as well as rock and ice routes all over Indiana. Have you not heard of any of those areas either?
He's bolted with Porter Jarrard, Doug Reed, Jamie Baker, Neal Strickland, and countless others. So, your comments about his lack of experience (or having never heard of him) only prove the level of your ignorance.
As for the comments about the shared/borrowed gun. This further demonstrates your lack of knowledge about the development down there. Karla and I own our own gun, J.J. owns his own gun, Tim owns his own gun, Mike, Eric, Josh, and most of the others also own their own guns...
I'm not quite sure what you were trying to accomplish or prove with your comments, but you're certainly not helping Greg Martin's case any. I could continue taking issue with several other things that you said, but it would probably be even a greater waste of time than responding to your asinine posts.
Fuck you very much,
Jared the Soccer Mom
Hi Joe, you are probably going to dislike me even more after you read this message, but I really need to vent. Besides, I could care less how you feel about me anyway.
From one developer to another I already had respect for you because of your positive comments about new route activists and in particular what was going on in Muir Valley. I had heard a few good things about you (and a few negative comments) and I was actually going to send you a pm to invite you to come bolt some routes down in Muir Valley if you were ever in the area.
Now I feel like a fool. First of all, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but insulting Rick with viscious lies and slander (or technically libel) really crossed the line and was not cool. He is the most generous man that I have ever met and has done many great things by opening his PRIVATE land to the public. He has also kept the climbing community regularly updated and aware of what is going on in the valley through this website.
As far as Greg Martin goes... I want it to be known that I have always encouraged him to put up hard route down there. J.J. and Karla have done the same. His disagreements with Tim have nothing to do with the other developers. We certainly did not appreciate being called soccer moms, etc.
Just because I (and several of the others) have never redpointed a 5.13 doesn't mean that we are not qualified to bolt routes down there. I've put up more than 20 5.12 routes in Muir Valley. And I've redpointed quite a few others all over the country in the last 13-14 years. I'm sorry if that is not good enough for you and I need a more thorough resume before I can bolt.
Greg is definitely more capable and qualified than I am to put up hard routes (especially those in the 5.13 range), but that's no excuse for you to belittle the rest of the developers. For this reason I have actively encouraged many of the Red's strongest climbers to come down to Muir and bolt some harder climbs. I've sent countless pm's to quite a few people inviting them to check out the potential for harder routes. There is easily potential for 100+ routes at 5.12+ and harder.
As for your comments about Tim... he's been climbing at the Red for 25 years and has participated in sport and trad FA's at Military Wall, Left Flank, Purple Valley, Long Wall, Funk Rock City, Sky Bridge Ridge, Roadside Crag, Torrent Falls, and Muir Valley as well as rock and ice routes all over Indiana. Have you not heard of any of those areas either?
He's bolted with Porter Jarrard, Doug Reed, Jamie Baker, Neal Strickland, and countless others. So, your comments about his lack of experience (or having never heard of him) only prove the level of your ignorance.
As for the comments about the shared/borrowed gun. This further demonstrates your lack of knowledge about the development down there. Karla and I own our own gun, J.J. owns his own gun, Tim owns his own gun, Mike, Eric, Josh, and most of the others also own their own guns...
I'm not quite sure what you were trying to accomplish or prove with your comments, but you're certainly not helping Greg Martin's case any. I could continue taking issue with several other things that you said, but it would probably be even a greater waste of time than responding to your asinine posts.
Fuck you very much,
Jared the Soccer Mom
"Those iron spikes you use have shortened the life expectancy of the Totem Pole by 50,000 years."
--A Navaho elder
--A Navaho elder