Crazyfingers

[tomdarch]

Remove the ledges? Mais non! Mon dieu! The ledges must remain - after all, we need our no-hands rests. But, of course, they must be safely padded!

[vic]

pad ze ledge zen! kuik kuik be cause u muste hurry!

[SikMonkey]

Cut the tree down in front of Crazyweiners? Just because a few out of the 15,000,000,000,000,000 people that climb it got injured...and lived? Next thing THEY will be wanting to do is ban private ownership of guns. Where does it end? They can have my Tree-In-Front-Of-Crazyfingers whey they pry it from my cold, dead, ledge.

Mj

[vic]

51% of all people are in the majority.
51% (or more) have survived the "tree"
Sorry, I am still in a foul mood.

[Zspider]

I was just wondering what the thoughts were about removing such trees. I realize that it is a privately owned cliff now so ultimately it is the landowners decision, but I was curious how the climbing community felt about the removal of such obstacles. Should the trees be considered sacred or she they be treated like loose blocks and other potential hazards? Any thoughts?

I would be interested to know if the land owner was consulted before the bolt holes were drilled into the cliffs.

ZSpider

[Zspider]

Cool, thanks for the replies y'all. I was just curious about the consensus opinion. Maybe I should have posted this as a poll instead.

Cut it down.

ZSpider

[vic]

I don't know zspider... think about it from a different prospective...
What if it were your backyard... and you allowed mountain bikers... and AND I decided to cut one of your trees to allow a faster turn (near your home) - you know... the tree that would potentially bring you a little bit of shade... what then?
Your statement would still remain unchanged?
(It's an honest question, aimed at making you realize that because someone let's us climb, it doesn't mean we can just build trails, bolt new routes, and cut what ever we please... I'd hope we would be thankful - no more no less)

[Ultra]

think about that crippled chic that almost sued the NF because of the shitty bolting job at Military wall....but nobody thinks about that shit....

[vic]

Think about the next person that will hike down past Roadside Attraction, and who will brake a spine while falling off the big boulder - just on the trail...
She/he will sue if she wants and may/will win too... because in the end, if we really want to sue, we will.
The responsible climber doesn't sue his/her belayer, and doesn't try to find someone to blame. Private owner make that clear to us - just as a reminder.
Closing down cliffs, cutting bolts, cutting trees... I am sorry, that's not the answer.

There are over 1300 routes at the Red, and some "foul" could claim that there are over 100 routes that are so called UNSAFE, or POORLY bolted. After you cut that tree... are you heading out the cut the bolts as well?

I am sorry... really sorry... but I will use another simple example:
Katty Brown et al. went on this bouldering trip. Heck, most climbers of the Red saw the video... did they move the boulders on the ground that were potentially fatal in the case of a fall???

(don't tell me they couldn't move them... I am sure they had a jack and a bit of imagination while on their travels)

[Saxman]

Everything is not a slippery slope. Cut the tree.