Wes wrote:The only way to change behavior at climbing areas is via mandatory, enforceable access restrictions. While there are plenty of individual exceptions, the climbing community as a whole will never, ever be capable of self policing. Period. A car full of people set to climb at a crag will never see the lot at 95% full, and think "oh, we should find someplace less crowded". Or if they do, it is only to avoid waiting in line, never because they are concerned about their impact - "no single snowflake ever feels responsible for an avalanche". I have seen it all over the US, and I have found creative ways to park at over full lots many times, and, truthfully, never thought of anything other then the routes/problems that await. I even walked right past the NO TRESPASSING at pocket wall when they first went up, because they obviously don't apply to climbers, just ATV's or other people. I hope I have become somewhat more enlighten / informed these days and would do the right thing now, but the masses of uninformed, unenlightened outgrow the reasonable people at a pretty fast pace.
My advice to John and Grant, based on what I have seen at Torrent and other places is to fully close roadside for at least year, then work out a way for mandatory, enforceable permits. Nothing less will cause any changes. And, if you feel that 20 is a good number of people for a day, then set up your permits for 15, because people will still find a way / flat out disregard any limit you set. In three years you will be amazed at the difference in how roadside looks. Torrent was one of the more abused crags, and I shudder to think at what it would look like today without the limits that are in place. Even if it is closed, you can still do informal trail days - those work well at torrent, though Bob has probably done 90% of the work himself, because that is just the kind of guy he is. There are enough responsible climbers that you will have enough support for some trail days if you choose to have them...
Mandatory, enforceable permits? Fifteen permits per day at Roadside?
Currently, Roadside sees 112 climbers on a Sat or Sun when the lot has 35 cars per day. (based on the stat we see here in the Red of 3.2 climbers per vehicle)
That's one solution and we respect your right to express it. If you were to concurrently apply that same plan to the other crags in the Red, you would be turning away 90% of the climbers wanting to enjoy this rock. What Grant and Bob choose to do is their right, their property, and their business. For the record, Liz and I will do whatever we can to keep Muir open to as many (within reasonable limits) as long as we can. Someday, it may come to permits, but then we'll hope to arrive at more realistic numbers. It's very easy to propose draconian measures like enforceable permits. It is much more difficult to implement such a plan for preserves the size of the PMRP and Muir.
Rick
