Who does it belong to?

[toad857]

soo, i wonder, all these people, coming into climbing from where? what is the best strategy to inculcate them before they head to the Red or anywhere else?

my suggestion? the climbing gyms.

Sure, they put up a "rrgcc" sticker or a poster every once in a while, but that's where it ends...and it makes me sick. (Most) of the gyms in the region don't take it any step farther, despite the fact that the RRG is responsible for a lot of their business (hard to calculate, but impossible to deny). Many of their members go from the gym to the crag without any change in mentality. It's treated like an extension of their local gym, but almost nobody pays $50/month to climb at the red. (unless you count 'gas money', which, doesn't count at all. sorry)

If your local gym has a poster of someone climbing a classic at the Red, but they never host benefit comps... ask them why.

From what I recall, Hoosier heights (and maybe a gym in lousiville?) do some benefit comps to raise money every once in a while, and they deserve props for it. EKU's last comp in richmond donated all of the profit to the coalition. But most gyms don't care enough to do that, and I think it's a wasted opportunity. Sure, it may only generate a few hundred bucks, but getting that message out to the young gym folk is what's more important. They need to realize that the Red is not an extension of their local gym.

It makes me sick when a gym only a couple hours from the red will readily host a comp for ABS (influencing nothing but someone's ego), but they never think to host a comp for Muir Valley, or for the PMRP. Comps are fun, they generate business, bring in customers from far away, and they can raise awareness about a good cause like saving access to the RRG. And in terms of the 'hassle' of putting on a production like that, my guess is that many of the people who won't drive all the way to the Red for a trail day might still volunteer an afternoon in their home town to set routes, coordinate a comp, and have a good time with their buddies. I know I would.

At the very least, if you're a climbing gym that isn't actively involved in promoting the right attitude to your members, then at least take down the damn posters that glorify the Red. You're not doing it any favors. You're just a taker like everyone else who's part of the problem.

[Clevis Hitch]

Clevis - that very thing had been formerly tried. I didn't work so well. Nobody wanted to walk "all" the way down to the entrance to do their thing.

Well how about a mulching toilet closer to the action.

Is this about shit or is it about something else. Its seems to me it has denigrated into a shit fit about the shit show. If you refuse to manage refuse then you are going to be left holding the bag.


How about we form a commitee to approach the parties that are involved. The owner, the managers and the climbers and nail down exactly what the problem questions and concerns are then once we know what we are dealing with then we can brainstorm some solutions, Review those solutions to find the most applicable and cost effective solution then seek funds to institute those solutions. See, problem solved, that is unless you don't want the problem solved(which I suspect!)

[climb2core]

Clevis - that very thing had been formerly tried. I didn't work so well. Nobody wanted to walk "all" the way down to the entrance to do their thing.

Well how about a mulching toilet closer to the action.

Is this about shit or is it about something else. Its seems to me it has denigrated into a shit fit about the shit show. If you refuse to manage refuse then you are going to be left holding the bag.


How about we form a commitee to approach the parties that are involved. The owner, the managers and the climbers and nail down exactly what the problem questions and concerns are then once we know what we are dealing with then we can brainstorm some solutions, Review those solutions to find the most applicable and cost effective solution then seek funds to institute those solutions. See, problem solved, that is unless you don't want the problem solved(which I suspect!)

God help me, Clevis is starting to think like me

[Clevis Hitch]

thats right baby, I'm in your mind now!


Seriously though, the reason why you and I think alike is because we have problem solving and conflict resolution skills. May not choose to use them all the time, but we do have them. I suspect that this on here isn't about solving problems or coming up with solutions, I think bob wants to close torrent to the general public but he can't because of his former position as the chief cook and bottle washer for the CC. So he's kinda stuck. Thats the reason for the rant and then the silence?

[OZ]

Ahhh, Clevis... Always thinking you have the answer. Well as long as you are speculating, I guess I might as well give it a try.

How big is Torrent? I'd guess the main area is about 200 yrds deep and about 80 yrds wide? A good chunk of that is taken up by a house, cabins, a parking area and a waterfall with a creek and an ever widening belay patch under the cliff. That's eating into the real estate where one might build a poop palace if one really wanted to build a shitter that close to one's house.

I don't think Bob gives a flying fuck whether it stays open or closed. I'd bet he's just disappointed that people can't seem to follow a few simple rules either out of stupidity or lack of respect - especially right after the place opened for the season. So while you are busy externalizing your master solution by having the landowner build a shit-house on his property, realize the solution is even simpler....pack out your shit. There. Problem solved with no cost to anyone.

Oh...and I think we are all waiting to hear you better alternative to the RRGCC. Can you have that on my desk by Monday.

[Nit]

It's interesting that some of the people who are complaining about how crowded things are, are the very ones who made the gorge popular by writing articles, making videos, writing guidebooks (heck, there's even an app, now).

It's interesting that some of the people who are talking about how bad it is that people feel "entitled", are the very ones who were bolting every rock they could find, without caring who owned it.

As for private land, I really like how Grant handles Roadside.

[Clevis Hitch]

Ahhh, Clevis... Always thinking you have the answer. Well as long as you are speculating, I guess I might as well give it a try.

How big is Torrent? I'd guess the main area is about 200 yrds deep and about 80 yrds wide? A good chunk of that is taken up by a house, cabins, a parking area and a waterfall with a creek and an ever widening belay patch under the cliff. That's eating into the real estate where one might build a poop palace if one really wanted to build a shitter that close to one's house.

I don't think Bob gives a flying fuck whether it stays open or closed. I'd bet he's just disappointed that people can't seem to follow a few simple rules either out of stupidity or lack of respect - especially right after the place opened for the season. So while you are busy externalizing your master solution by having the landowner build a shit-house on his property, realize the solution is even simpler....pack out your shit. There. Problem solved with no cost to anyone.

Oh...and I think we are all waiting to hear you better alternative to the RRGCC. Can you have that on my desk by Monday.

Alright, How about this. Instead of complaining about the shit, do something about the shit. You want it run like a park, save yourself all the time and trouble doing the market research and run it like they run a similar park, whether its a state, city or national park. I'm sure that if you ask someone about park management that was actually in park management than you'd get some real solutions...OR... You could get on here and complain about the young and disrestectful and state how you,"would never!" or you could run me down even though I'm offering paths to real solutions...OR... shut the place down so everyone can see the the CC and its heirarchy is nothing more than it ever was. a Kool Kids Klimbing Klub.

















BTW...Fuck you.

[SCIN]

It's interesting that some of the people who are complaining about how crowded things are, are the very ones who made the gorge popular by writing articles, making videos, writing guidebooks (heck, there's even an app, now).

It's interesting that some of the people who are talking about how bad it is that people feel "entitled", are the very ones who were bolting every rock they could find, without caring who owned it.

As for private land, I really like how Grant handles Roadside.

I write the guidebook and am heavily involved with the app. Are you saying I can't complain about a crowded cliff because I write the guidebook? Why is that? I always thought that offering alternative crags to people (through making it known in the guidebook) helped to disperse the crowds.

Just wondering, have you heard me complain about how crowded things are? I may have or may not have. Just want to see if you know me or if you're taking a chance and making shit up.

[OZ]

Nobody ever said anything about running it like a park. It isn't a park. It's a tiny piece of personal property.

Good on ya that you didn't let the opportunity pass you by to dump on the coalition.




BTW...Stay classy.

[climb2core]

It's interesting that some of the people who are complaining about how crowded things are, are the very ones who made the gorge popular by writing articles, making videos, writing guidebooks (heck, there's even an app, now).

It's interesting that some of the people who are talking about how bad it is that people feel "entitled", are the very ones who were bolting every rock they could find, without caring who owned it.

As for private land, I really like how Grant handles Roadside.

Nit, bold accusations. But in short nit, u r a dip shit. U can no more blame the the people that spent time developing the rock and SHARING it than you can blame yourself. U ever climb at the Red? Do us a favor, don't. Red population minus one nit-wit.