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As I said, since my info was 2nd or 3rd hand, I wasn't going to pass along information that accused anyone specifically. I still will not. Weber assumed he was being accused. Why is that? If I heard stories of someone chipping on my cliffs, I'd be trying to find out who it was and putting a stop to it, not defending myself against accusations that were not made...

If your going to chip holds at least be creative.

This is been one of the interesting threads on here in quite some time.

Never thought I would enjoy being in the old and crusty group but here I am and loving it!

BTW Lurkist, Kevin got official orders to OH for this fall! Can't wait to spend it in the Gorge!

pigsteak wrote:...

and now it is time for the current route developers to speak up. rockman, wes, rro, mcglone, redpoint ron, goodguy..time to sack up and speak your mind....none of you have placed a single bolt in Muir, but between you guys and I, we have placed hundreds of bolts elsewhere in the Red. Buster says the practice of flattening spots for hangers (among other things) does not happen elsewhere in the Red. Have any of you ever done this?

Ive made a few hangers sit better, but I personally attempt to place into flat facets or the rock. It is the right thing to do.

As for "chipping", This is a good debate (no place for an online forum).
(a) Rick owns his land and according to law, can completely deface it IF he wants.
(b) Almost all climbing bums are completly against chipping.

(Land Owner ethics) != (climber etihic)

I dont see the big deal, didnt God chipped all that crap you have in the gorge?

thanks rockman....I also have set a few hangers flat by knocking off edges. and I'll do it again if need be. check out the crux crimp on Iron Lung if you want an example of what can happen when cleaning. There was a loose shard sitting right in the middle of the crimp...I was able to pop it out with the end of my toothbrush..now, the hold stays wet...cleaning or chipping? you decide.

Rockman,
Climbers have ethics?

yea right

Maine-
Sweet. Can't wait to have you all back. The girls will have some fun - yours and ours, that is.
Congrats to Kevin.

pigsteak wrote:and now it is time for the current route developers to speak up. rockman, wes, rro, mcglone, redpoint ron, goodguy..time to sack up and speak your mind....none of you have placed a single bolt in Muir, but between you guys and I, we have placed hundreds of bolts elsewhere in the Red. Buster says the practice of flattening spots for hangers (among other things) does not happen elsewhere in the Red. Have any of you ever done this?

thanks pig. i feel a bit like michael corleone. i have flattened the area around a hanger but i have NEVER enhanced a hold to dumb a route to my non-stellar climbing level. and NEVER will. i will gladly give it to someone who can do it...

and everyone who has picked up a hilti in my presence has done the same thing.

i actually got on a route i f.a.'d this past week and felt there was some loose stuff i should've tidy'd up.

and f.w.i.w, i can vividly remember watching a first ascentionist go to work on a route with a hammer at the pocket wall back in the mid 90's.

regards.

r.r.

ReachHigh wrote: f your going to chip holds at least be creative.

like I said one of st francis statues or maybe a nice birdbath would be acceptable