the lurkist wrote:As one of those perpetual mal contents, I will give my unsolicited opinion again. (Thanks, always happy to.).........
I know too that the new people (Bill, Tim) are the best thing to happen to the coalition since it began to founder. I know too the Dr. Bob, and Ryan are there trying hard as well.
Good comments Hugh, that's constructive criticism. What pisses me off is when people have had personal conflicts in the past with whoever and use that as an excuse to trash the coalition at every opportunity, especially when some of these people haven't quite made it around the block. I challenge anyone to say something negative about Bob, Johnny, Tim, Ryan, Bill, the rest of the CAC, etc. and the things they've done and will continue to do. Trash any individual's mistakes if you want but when you trash the coalition you're trashing those people too. It's quite simply out of line.
Charlie, my criticisms involve the prior use of volunteers. Previously, it has been difficult to impossible to get people to help with organizing functions and raising money for the coalition.
Fact, when I tried to contact persons in the gear industry for donations I heard "the RRGCC has waited until the last minute again and we did not budget for donating to the organization this time." The reason for failure to donate is the fact that functions, like Derbyfest and Rocktoberfest are planned in two months prior to the event. That has not improved. More money would easily be raised if the events were planned and sufficient advanced notice given. But it has been impossible to move forward because everything had to be cussed and discussed to death.
Fact, many people in the climbing community who volunteered for the org in the past were treated like dirt. Including a very good friend of yours who was gracious enough to help out at a function anyway.
I disagree that criticizing the coalition means that you are trashing everyone therein. I am very thankful for the positive measure the Coalition is responsible for. If not for the Coalition, there wouldn't be climbing at Military. Period. I think it is a shame, however, that we could have an amazing inclusive regional organization. I don't think that we do.
So, call me fucking uncalled for or petty or whatever. I really dont care what you think.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
Oh and my point about how the RRGCC is reviled more than any climbing org in the country is valid in my opinion. I've traveled a little and I've never heard climbers in other regions speak of their local or regional organizations with such hostility as many climbers in this area.
I'm not saying that all climbers in this region hate the RRGCC. But there are many who have bad experiences and detest the organization based upon experiences with individuals.
I'm actually not one of those people.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
I disagree wiht Sprag..just look at the postings here..the majority say they admire the RRGCC....it is just those vocal few dissidents who make front page news..most of us love RRGCC, and are willing to give the new leadership a chance....
how about you Sprag? you ready to get out of the mud, quit digging up dirt, and share the load?
Spragwa has put a great deal of energy into helping the RRGCC but was turned away by dirty politics. Give her a break, Piggie. You are just now rolling up your sleeves, but she has been there and done that. Her criticisms are legitimate, as are Hugh's.
We all, including Spragwa, want to see the RRGCC succeed. We all (again, including Spragwa) recognize and are grateful for the lasting, positive impacts the RRGCC has had on climbing in the RRG. However, there are still some broken things that need to be fixed, and until they are, don't expect everyone who has been involved in the past to come running back.
Bill Strachan is an excellent leader for the RRGCC. Hopefully he will be allowed to actually run things.
oh, I remember Sprag being involved...but don't you remember me..I believe our group collected the most money (maybe second most) for the route auction that was held...so I have invested interests as well. btw, I don't think we ever received teh rope we were promised for that..I wonder what happened...
I was going to stay out of this, but….
(pointless, long, very boring rant)
Can one person on this board argue the fact that without the coalition the climbing in the Red would not be where it is today? You cant. Can anyone disagree that the RRGCC has done way more good than bad? Look at the facts.
All of us could sit here and repeat the same old arguments for both sides, but that got old after the first 20 threads. Why waste our time on the same bullshit different day rants? I’m tired of the same old stuff from the same old people.
Amy and I have been involved with the RRGCC in varying levels since we started climbing and will continue to support the coalition financially, by volunteering time and by donations of equipment/supplies. We wish the new and old staff the best of luck, and if you need anything give us a call.
Whether you dislike, disagree, disassociate or just plain dis the founding members of the coalition you owe them props and a thanks. If your to blind or stupid to see that I believe that natural selection will take care of you soon, so no long term worries for the rest of us
The RRGCC has its problems, just like any other business. Non-profit, advocacy, grass roots, tree huggers call it what you want. It’s a business and it needs to be run like a business. In a start-up company or a mom and pop type business it’s expected and better to have a do it all your self-mentality and management style. As the business grows you need to find dedicated people and be able to analyze where their strengths lie and allow them to lead in that area. You have to be able to communicate your final goal and the steps you are willing to take and allow others to help, not only with labor and money but also with some decisions in getting there. If you don’t trust the people doing the job to do a good job then you did a bad job of utilizing their strengths and communicating the final product. .
As with any growing business new eyes and ideas are needed to keep the internal fire burning and to keep motivation and spirits high. In my humble opinion the RRGCC needs to start actively pursuing larger money raising campaigns such as hitting up businesses in the area for affiliate/commission/sponsor type partnerships. Large corporations, State/Federal Grants and Universities should offer some type of relief. Work with the tourism boards for possible advertising and partnership. Get a different sector involved. Make people get involved that look at the area as a way of putting food on the table and not a weekend vacation. I am sure this has been done to an extent, but I do not think it has been actively pursued. What % of product is purchased by the RRGCC for an event like Rocktober Fest?
I am not privy to the information, or have not thought enough till now to really ask, dumb of me. Anyway, how many paid staff members does the RRGCC have?
Pay a web site developer, advertising/promotions planner or whatever positions you decide your weak points are. I think you would see a huge increase in traffic, members and funds. Communication has been pretty bad in the past no one can deny that. I think the new staff is aware of the issue and deserve a chance to get the ball rolling.
In the past it seems like the critics have always talked about the aggression and a holier than thou attitude and that the coalition seemed un-approachable. This has came from climbers, businesses, partners, people involved and to an extent the parks as well. Some of this action was possibly called for. I think the times,customer base and situation were different than now. That image still exists, it has to be changed.
I’m not even sure where I am going with this. I have valid points on both sides of the debate, that’s past, let it rest. I do wish Bill and the RRGCC the best of luck. Let us know what we can do to help.
If you don’t get involved then you have no room to bitch. Support the RRGCC. If not in personal actions and time then in funds. If you don’t support them with funds then don’t use their services.
I hope you enjoy the gym or know a lot of private landowners.
Last edited by climbhigh on Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Piggie, that was not the only time that I was involved with the RRGCC. I have done grunt work as well and pitched out when I was allowed.
As I have stated before, I support the organization's purpose. The criticism so far has been constructive and is meant to help it grow, not to undermine what has been accomplished. Honestly, I haven't seen much RRGCC bashing in this thread since the first post. The rest has been a discussion of what may be made better.
This whole "yur for us or agin us" mentality is stifling.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
Do you have a better idea of how to keep such land from coming under climber hostile ownership?
yeah it was never under hostile ownership until the rrgcc whated to buy it. the oil company didnt give a shit because we didnt want the land. but after we started trying to buy it was when the problems came about... im glad the rrgcc got the land i just dont think they kept the people that they wanted money from well informed. i just hope they can pay it off..??
