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Re: Nice Outside Online arcticle on Muir Valley
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:12 pm
by clif
dustonian, basically you keep creating straw man arguments. the Webers were on this forum (not this thread) discussing this topic years ago, and maybe before FOMV was formed, so being disrespectful is pushing it.
and, if anything you've posted you intended to pertain to me i'd gain much more from your effort if you could refer to things i've actually said. IF..
Re: Nice Outside Online arcticle on Muir Valley
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:24 pm
by doogievlg
This thread is a perfect example of RRG drama bullshit. The webers are not going out and fucking buying all sorts of new sick gear with the money thats being donated, they are using it to improve the area so smoke a fatty and chill. I mean if i want to climb Air-ride equipped with a cock ring on then I am donating money and crushing...end of fucking story.
Re: Nice Outside Online arcticle on Muir Valley
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:45 pm
by Meadows
climb2core wrote:I have seen the numbers. It is amazing how expensive road maintenance is. Think of the distance from the paved road to the Valley floor. Plus, there have been ongoing efforts each year to build infrastructure (ie culverts, drainage ditches) that will reduce maintenance cost on a long term basis.
But regardless of how crazy and needlessly expensive you may think it is... it would be a non-issue if everyone could drop $2 or $3 in the box every time. Of course, there will be those that do not, and those that do more than there "share".
Lena's point is irrelevant. The question you need to ask, is worth it to you to support Muir Valley as long term climbing venue. Unless you buy Muir Valley and sink in hundreds of thousands into it's development, you don't get to make the rules, just decide if you want to be in the game.
I am not trying to make rules, but do realize that you're saying this a community responsibility but community input is not allowed.
Re: Nice Outside Online arcticle on Muir Valley
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:38 pm
by climb2core
Input on what Rick and Liz's vision for MV should and what they want to achieve for the future of MV? Yes, you are correct... they are not soliciting input. It is not a community responsibility... it is community choice.
We can
a) Support the Webers vision for MV and donate $2-$3 per visit and show we can operationally manage the land in return for access to MV as a climbing venue in perpetuity.
or
b) Decide that is not an acceptable expenditure and lose MV as a climbing venue.
Pretty self centered attitude to start qualifying under what conditions you will accept THEIR gift. Don't you think you have it backwards?
Re: Nice Outside Online arcticle on Muir Valley
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:46 pm
by Meadows
There is nothing self centered in saying give us goals that can be reached. If you're seriously satisfied with $2-3 for the visitors who will do it (because we know many won't), then that is the only message that should come across.
However, it has been ultimatum after ultimatum every year where Muir is concerned, which to me isn't "choice". I believe the recent articles wanted to get across the message that the Webers want us to step up to maintain Muir at the level they've taken it.
But if a reasonable pay-for-play fee is all you want, then that's a fair message. But we know that at a 60-80K bill, it takes more than that.
Re: Nice Outside Online arcticle on Muir Valley
Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:03 pm
by climb2core
Ultimatum? They are becoming desperate to have the community step up. Donations have been pennies per visit. Yes, two things need to occur.
1.) We need to raise $60k to 90K a year. ($2-3/visit)
2.) we need to demonstrate operationally we can maintain it. (ie get the roads graded and filled, the ditches dug, the culverts cleaned, the toilets cleaned/pumped, the trails maintained, etc)
Additionally we need to demonstrate that we have the systems in place that can sustain those two things on an ongoing basis.
Re: Nice Outside Online arcticle on Muir Valley
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:04 am
by TradMike
You might as well give up on donations. That won't work. Just ask Radiohead how their pay what you want for our album turned out. 3 out of 5 paid nothing. The other 2 out of five didn't pay much. It needs to be sustainable or it just won't work. You have to figure out how to live on what you make. Not make and figure out how to pay for it. That is exactly why our economy is where it is at today. Most people won't step up. Some will but there are not enough of those kind. Just the facts not a bash.
Re: Nice Outside Online arcticle on Muir Valley
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:09 am
by woodchuck008
I live 425 miles too far away to contribute much time and effort to help out at Muir, therefore I do my best via Paypal to donate. Think of Muir as a huge amusement park. For a fraction of the cost to visit Great America or 6Flags, you get more fun, exercise and personal excitement each day and the the scenic beauty of the valley..definately worth 5 to 10 bucks a visit to keep it going for us.
Re: Nice Outside Online arcticle on Muir Valley
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:49 am
by ted
TradMike wrote:You might as well give up on donations. That won't work. Just ask Radiohead how their pay what you want for our album turned out. 3 out of 5 paid nothing. The other 2 out of five didn't pay much. It needs to be sustainable or it just won't work. You have to figure out how to live on what you make. Not make and figure out how to pay for it. That is exactly why our economy is where it is at today. Most people won't step up. Some will but there are not enough of those kind. Just the facts not a bash.
+1
spoken like a gentlman and a scholar.
Re: Nice Outside Online arcticle on Muir Valley
Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:16 am
by michaelarmand
TradMike wrote:You might as well give up on donations. That won't work. Just ask Radiohead how their pay what you want for our album turned out. 3 out of 5 paid nothing. The other 2 out of five didn't pay much. It needs to be sustainable or it just won't work. You have to figure out how to live on what you make. Not make and figure out how to pay for it. That is exactly why our economy is where it is at today. Most people won't step up. Some will but there are not enough of those kind. Just the facts not a bash.
Ever heard of the PMRP? The $200K mortgage is paid. The climbing community can sustain a property like MV if it becomes a priority to us. You are correct that many people will not contribute anything....which means we get to give more.