PDs at Lode

[pigsteak]

agreed, being anonymous behind "the crew" is as bad as being anonymous here.

[cliftongifford]

Not cool at all. You'd have to be an elitist prick remove gear that isn't yours... Unless it's on YOUR property or an access issue, which this obviously is not.

[Syphur]

I don't climb at the Lode. Never even been there for that matter. I don't climb sport either so I really couldn't care less about perma's. I do hope however that the perma's are returned to whoever put them up. If not you and your "crew" are not only arguably acting out of place but also thieves. That would be a problem. Aside from that, let the chips fall where they may.

[pigsteak]

the first week after might be fun to watch..a bunch of climbers descend assuming their proj has fixed tat...not wanting to leave their brand new shiny petzl spirits on the rig, they decide to clean at end of day...from the anchors, you hear a hump back sport-o asking..."how do I do a transfer?"

[local]

rainy day at the red....perfect for online rants. I would like to start by stating that i was aware about the draws getting taken down. Zac brought it up around some beers and it was talked about for hours. My take was, "sure, take some draws down, see if it helps. They're easy to put back up." I said i would take some down at left flank because they're on national forest land. But i didn't get around to it (oh yea thats right i had a kid....i was at the house all day) I also don't mind hanging draws. As far as the lode is concerned, I climbed there today and had a great day without draws on the wall. I met a group from salt lake that had no idea there ever were PD and commented how they loved the biners at the anchors. With that said, you could hang them all back up tomorrow and i would be ok with that too. Hell its only 15 routes out of 1000's in the red. Blaming Miguels for our cheap camping is unfair. dirtbags are in every community and can suck as much as rich weekend warriors. the Red community encourages people to come to it with things such as rocktrip, rocktoberfest, Red River Reunion, Uclimb, badass guide book, online forum, and yes cheap camping. I can also understand Red veterans that have been a part of this community since black and white TV to get upset if long term visitors (aka locals of the red) say whats right and wrong. As far as PD go, i do a fundraiser to raise money for them every year in an effort to keep the gear safe. I think that they will always be a part of the red.(caves, hard clips, anchors). The question is where's the cut off point? Hell if i was a 5.10 climber i would be lobbying for PD in sore heal. When i first started climbing, hanging draws was scary as hell. I'm not sure what the solution is, but maybe this is what we needed to get the issue addressed. Maybe a meeting should be held so everyones opinion can be heard and a solution can be made.

[Andrew]

rainy day at the red....perfect for online rants. I would like to start by stating that i was aware about the draws getting taken down. Zac brought it up around some beers and it was talked about for hours. My take was, "sure, take some draws down, see if it helps. They're easy to put back up." I said i would take some down at left flank because they're on national forest land. But i didn't get around to it (oh yea thats right i had a kid....i was at the house all day) I also don't mind hanging draws. As far as the lode is concerned, I climbed there today and had a great day without draws on the wall. I met a group from salt lake that had no idea there ever were PD and commented how they loved the biners at the anchors. With that said, you could hang them all back up tomorrow and i would be ok with that too. Hell its only 15 routes out of 1000's in the red. Blaming Miguels for our cheap camping is unfair. dirtbags are in every community and can suck as much as rich weekend warriors. the Red community encourages people to come to it with things such as rocktrip, rocktoberfest, Red River Reunion, Uclimb, badass guide book, online forum, and yes cheap camping. I can also understand Red veterans that have been a part of this community since black and white TV to get upset if long term visitors (aka locals of the red) say whats right and wrong. As far as PD go, i do a fundraiser to raise money for them every year in an effort to keep the gear safe. I think that they will always be a part of the red.(caves, hard clips, anchors). The question is where's the cut off point? Hell if i was a 5.10 climber i would be lobbying for PD in sore heal. When i first started climbing, hanging draws was scary as hell. I'm not sure what the solution is, but maybe this is what we needed to get the issue addressed. Maybe a meeting should be held so everyones opinion can be heard and a solution can be made.

Well said D.

[graniteclimber]

LOL! I read that rant by Mr. Sands. You guys are in trouble if you let a mind like that speak and act for you. Less people...except for you guys of course. Classic. Doomed to repeat history I'd say, not long before the sharp mank is hanging from every bolt.

One of the nicest things about the Red is that you guys have no Tool. Looks like that just changed.

[aburgoon]

I wish the media would start hyping some other area for a while to take the heat off this joint.

But the media is not to blame for the overpopulation of the Red. The Red is at fault. Ask any climber in America if they've heard of the Red and the New. They will say yes to both. So why are there 1000 cars parked at Muir Valley and an empty parking lot at Endless Wall? Because people like climbing at the Red. Blame geology for making sick holds on steep rock that people enjoy climbing on, not the media.

If a sick hold exists in the forest, and nobody sprays about it, is it really sick?

[captain static]

A couple of weeks ago I attended the Access Fund's National Access & Stewardship Summit. One of the sessions was a discussion of fixed anchor issues including perma-draws. What struck me about this discussion was the climber-centric views expressed just like on this thread. Last fall I had the pleasure of speaking to the annual meeting of the Kentucky Chapter of the Sierra Club about the RRGCC and climbing in RRG. Afterwords, I received many compliments and was told I should have included more climbing pictures. Then one of the old timers came up to me and stated, "Bolts are trash". Did anyone ask Grant Stephens or John Haight for permission to put up PD's? No, that is one reason they closed the area. On USFS land no new fixed gear is allowed without prior approval. Then why would anyone do so? Has anyone asked the private property owners of the Lode or any other private area for permission to install PD's? Not to my knowledge except for Muir Valley where all fixed anchor activity is managed by the owner. IMHO, as long as the view towards PD's remains climber-centric, the issue will continue to present access problems.

[EricDorsey]

IMHO, as long as the view towards PD's remains climber-centric, the issue will continue to present access problems.

I don't understand, isn't the entire southern region climber centric? Who else goes down there besides climbers and meth heads breaking into cars..?